Robert de Sorbon evaluation

I suppose anyone could ask AACRAO for the document, but I am not sure whether they can release work done for a third party - they are a private provider. Go ahead and ask.

Their report became a public document of the State of Oregon when I got it, therefore I can release it. I am not allowed to make any changes in the substance of the text. I suppose there are those who simply assume that I always lie and am a scoundrel, but I hope that most on the list would trust me to pass on an accurate version of a document like this.

 

Troubled by the lack of response

I am troubled by your denial of response about US evaluator 9s) as you posted a public statement and you even now talk about a "rogue evaluator". If you can not document it, you may use some more selected words.

My question remains: Could you prove that the same person owns 5 US credential evaluation services in the US as AACRAO and yourself posted it? Is this assertion of "common ownership" included in the soon published AACRAO report ?

Yes or No ?

It is the credibility of the AACRAO and yourself, which is at stake.

I am quite sure that you will document this common ownership as you are an official representing a US State and, according to some postings, a distinguished licensed lawyer.

I went to the site Canadian Information Centre for International Credentials and it appears that they do not do evaluation and provide generic Guidelines. They even recommend in each province a "Credential Assesment Service".

They states "The following services abide by the Alliance's Quality Assurance Framework, CICIC's General Guiding Principles for Good Practice in the Assessment of Foreign Credentials and the Recommendation on Criteria and Procedures for the Assessment of Foreign Qualifications adopted under the 1997 Lisbon Recognition Convention."

I think that to say that the CANADIAN GOVERNMENT refuses Robert de Sorbon is not totally accurate.

Respectfully,
Regards

 

Troubled by the lack of response

I am troubled by your denial of response about US evaluator 9s) as you posted a public statement and you even now talk about a "rogue evaluator". If you can not document it, you may use some more selected words.

My question remains: Could you prove that the same person owns 5 US credential evaluation services in the US as AACRAO and yourself posted it? Is this assertion of "common ownership" included in the soon published AACRAO report ?

Yes or No ?

It is the credibility of the AACRAO and yourself, which is at stake.

I am quite sure that you will document this common ownership as you are an official representing a US State and, according to some postings, a distinguished licensed lawyer.

I went to the site Canadian Information Centre for International Credentials and it appears that they do not do evaluation and provide generic Guidelines. They even recommend in each province a "Credential Assesment Service".

They states "The following services abide by the Alliance's Quality Assurance Framework, CICIC's General Guiding Principles for Good Practice in the Assessment of Foreign Credentials and the Recommendation on Criteria and Procedures for the Assessment of Foreign Qualifications adopted under the 1997 Lisbon Recognition Convention."

I think that to say that the CANADIAN GOVERNMENT refuses Robert de Sorbon is not totally accurate.

Respectfully,
Regards

 

Is accurate but not TOTALLY accurate? Is not accurate at all?

Fine. Maybe so, maybe not. But you are engaging in argumentation by assertion. What is YOUR documentary evidence that it is not so? Please share.

Thanks.

 

I think the point about whether it is the Canadian government that concluded that Sorbon is not a valid degree-granter has validity and is worthy of correction.

Canada is highly decentralized, so the evaluator CICIC is actually a joint service unit for the provincial ministries of education, as I understand it, and the provinces have most of the authority over higher ed in Canada. Thus the conclusion was not by the federal government of Canada, but by the entity that works for the provinces.

That said, the staff of CICIC told me last week that their research had found that Sorbon was not a real French degree-granter. I have no idea what the case was, you'd have to ask them.

 

Re: Troubled by the lack of response

Canada does not accredit foreign programs on its own. Universities and professional associations are responsible to validate a foreign University degree.

As for canadian universities, each faculty is responsible to validate foreign credentials for admission. As a general practice, we have a list of Universities that are acceptable for University admissions and Sorbon is not part of this list. In this case, we would ask the student to submit evidence that the university is accredited by the goverment of the jurisdiction of the school in question and
evidence that the school has qualified faculty, libraries and facilities.

I would find extremely hard to believe that a private school that hands degrees based only on experience would be acceptable for admissions at any Canadian University. This doesn't mean that this is not possible as some faculties are starving for students and might turn a blind eye on the fact that Sorbon is bogus.

 

I was right it was not accurate

My response is: I was just vindicated (timing is everything is not it ?) by the frank response of Mr. Contreras who very openly modified his statement about the "Canadian Government". I was right I think, and I thank Mr. Contreras for clarifying it very honestly and he is a real gentleman .

One more of my questions still remains unanswered: Could AACRAO or/and Mr. Contreras prove that the same person owns the 5 US Credential evaluators that validate Sorbon, as Mr. Contreras stated in his first statement ?

Yes or No ?
.
Thank you in advance.

 

CICIC is a credential evaluator that is recognized for canadian immigration purposes.

I can see why the CICIC wouldn't accept Sorbon. This would basically open the doors to any single person in the planet that wants to immigrante to Canada as he or she only needs to have work experience (or not even) to be eligible for a Sorbon degree and therefore canadian immigration.

 

I should not have mentioned the entity using "multiple flags" because in fact that situation is in or about to be in litigation. My bad. I can't discuss it any further.

That said, we are not aware of even one reputable foreign credential evaluation service that accepts Sorbon degrees as valid (equivalent) for use in the U.S.

By the way, the ethics complaints that Sorbon filed against our agency attorney have been tossed by the bar.

From our point of view, there is no longer any active issue regarding Sorbon. It is not a genuine degree-granter.

 

Re: Re: Troubled by the lack of response

What if the degree was awarded by University of Paris by the VIE or was it VAE process solely on basis of work experience?

Would the degree from University of Paris be rejected in such a case.

I don't think so.

I think VAE is valid process and if conducted according to the law will have recognition around the world.

In UK professional institutions award chartered status and most of them require interview in person.

I had interview by phone with BCS is BCS braking the rules or streching them?

As stated before I leave this issues in the hands of professionals such as AACRAO.

Learner

 

time to say good night?

Perhaps in light of Alan's latest post and his indication that current litigation precludes further comment from him, we ought to conclude this thread and if necessary start another (ye gods!) Sorbon thread.

 

Thank you Mr Contreras.

Thank you Mr. Contreras !

'I appreciate greatly your honesty. Indeed you should not have said that the Canadian Government does not recognises De Sorbon, as it was not accurate.

You also should not have said that AACRAO told you that all of the US Credentialing agencies (Several members themselves of AACRAO-Funny !, NAFSA, etc.) that recognises de Sorbon are owned by the same person. Is it because:
1) You can not proved it ?
or
2) AACRAO ask you not to confirm it, If it so why ? Because they can not prove it and are afraid of a litigation?

I think also that the term "rogue evaluator", when not substantiated, should be avoided. It seems not in line with the policy of avoiding personal attacks in this forum.

Nevertheless I thank you for your honesty with us.

To admit to be wrong twice reflects a great personality. Not to mention your previous suppression of a full thread in this forum.

I thank you again for your candor.

Respectfully

 

I misread the material I have from CICIC Canada as being from the Minister of Education of Canada when in fact it is the Council of Ministers of Education of Canada that apparently maintains CICIC, not quite the same animals. I hope that I may be credited with a clean fix.

I don't know that there is much more to be said about Sorbon, but feel free to grind away if you like. I'll check this thread occasionally. For now I am going to post a new inquiry on Caribbean medical schools.

 

Litigation? Hmm…

As I reported back in June of last year (see this thread), state officials in Maine, in a telephone conversation, maintained that from the moment L’Université Francophone Robert de Sorbon was chartered as a corporation in that state, it was operating illegally. Furthermore, I was also told that the matter had been referred to the office of the State Attorney General for further action.

Could this have anything to do with it?

 

Perhaps but my opinion is that AACRAO reacted to the letter posted by a friend of Sorbon here and was afraid of a possible litigation (US is the land of litigation no? ) Mostly about claiming that the 5 US evaluators recognizing de Sorbon are owned by the same person, which appears to be inadequate.(I do not use the word false, as I do not want to ignite stupid personal fights).

Mr. Alan Contreras recognized his errors officially and I think that this retreat was probably inspired by the AACRAO. It is in his honour.

From what I heard from the French consulate and it seems to be shared by the majority of the participants of this Forum. The Ecole Supérieure Robert de Sorbon operates legally in France.

But everything is possible !

Respectfully yours, Good Night from the Lake (Not frozen)

 

Re: Re: Re: Troubled by the lack of response

It depends on the faculty but the fact that there is no transcript of courses ("unless it is fabricated") would raise a lot of questions.

In our case, when we doubt about the school, the student is normally put on probation for few courses as independent student before he or she is considered for admission. If the student is able to handle graduate level courses with a minimum grade of B, he would be offered admission based on merit rather than the legality of the degree.

 

Perhaps, but I believe the term "litigation" arose in relation to the entity utilizing different flags of convenience, rather than anything to do with ACCRAO or credential evaluators.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Troubled by the lack of response

I read about a person who got a chartered engineer status via IEE in UK based on mature adult rout.

He later got based on CEng the diploma ( no transcript) from C&G I in London UK.

His diploma is above BS degree.

He later got in to Masters degree program in USA, I don't recall the name of the school.

He used his many years in engineering and R&D.

Wile not VAE it appears to be close to that.


Regards,

Learner.