Robert de Sorbon evaluation

MBA from the Institut des Hautes Etudes Economiques et Comerciales from Paris or Bordeaux or Lyon,or a similar institution I am not listed in the imaginarian list of universities but the institut is working according with the french code de l'education and is registered with the local public university for starting the activities. Will Oregon allow the use of my degree inside of the state?.

This was my question and the reply was refered to his, justs look back I am not inventing nothing. Ok here is 11pm to late. THink what you want.

 

OK, last time I tried posting an e-mail, I was blasted as a shill, and that the post MUST be forged. But if Alan can post his, I'll give it a try....

Directly from AC Poitiers:

From: Maryvonne Desvard [[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: ecole robert de sorbon

L'école robert de sorbon est un établissement d'enseignement supérieur privé sur lequel l'éducation nationale n'exerce pas de controle pédagogique
bonne réception
M Desvard. SPM 3


So, Sorbon IS an private enseignement Superieur according to Poitiers, but is not under the instructional control of government, as indicated by Milotach.

No, the e-mail is not a fake, and has not been changed..... If you need to visit me in NH to verify it on my computer, please let me know......

 

Has this Institut des Hautes Etudes undergone any credible and reliable external oversight and verification process equivalent to American accreditation or to the work of the British QAA? If not, then it's hard to see how to justify the claim that it's accredited under the Oregon definition.

I suppose that graduates of these instituts could ask the ODA to approve their degrees on a case-by-case basis for use in Oregon.

I'm aware that many of the most prestigious higher education institutions in France are ecoles. But if these ecoles receive little external oversight and if substandard "ecoles" are free to operate alongside the respected ones, then this class of institution can't just be accepted blindly en-masse.

 

So, Chud writes that according to Poitiers:

"The Robert de Sorbon is a private higher educational establishment on which national education does not exert teaching control
good reception"

Of course one need not be reminded that:

"........ a private higher educational establishment on which national education does not exert teaching control" - could just as well refer to unwonderful entities and mills such as KWE, SRU, ACU, CPU, etc.

So, your point, Chud, is?

"..... good reception" - by whom, what is the criteria for this "good" characterisation, and who sets it/them?

KWE gets "good reception" from the self-proclaimed unaccreditation advocates and champions (to the exclusion of all else), substandard non-standard bearers, mill shills, mill operators, some "student" co-conspirators, a few (very few) unknowing innocent souls, and most times, the scammed-yet-steeped-in-denial-ologists.

So, your point, Chud, is?

So ... who are you? What has changed? What has not changed? Why the new moniker/disguise?

After being last blasted as a shill, you decided to go remake yourself and come back right in here, right? Only to start championing or appear to favor the likes of Robert de Sorbon?

The irony! The irony!

 

What you say is very reasonable, but the case of Robert de Sorbon is unique, I do not know any other entity like this. The conditions to give clases are more or less this: To start a course, a private ecole or Institut need to send to the public french university all the programs, photocopy of the credentials of the teachers, criminal history report of the personal, inspection of the security and capacity of the place where you are teaching and so many more. I can give it to you the conditions printed on a french public university paper. After receiving this them the Recteur of the french public universiy will give the permission to start working. Without this conditions you have no permiss to start giving clasess, the problem with Sorbon is that they are not giving clases, read again, PLEASE I know is hard to read my english, sorry. I explained on my first and long post what is happend with Sorbon, please read it again and you will understand. I am giving the complet information to understand this, but nodoy is reading.

I am agree any case with you when you say that can't just be accepted blindly en-masse, nothing is good blindly. The government on France does not give a pedagogic control on privated schools but one public university can stablish an oposition against one privated college if they are not agree with the programs, specially in ingenering areas, medicine etc... Whay they are asking for the credentials of the teachers and the complet programs, and also the scholar materials used for each course?. If they will have nothing to say, they won't ask for nothing.

 

code name: shark bait

I always wanted to be a "army ranger" so I can use sophisticated code words..........

Milotach. Milotach. Sálut. I have a very hard time digesting that in France, one simply submits paper work and offfffffff you go (Je ne crois pas).
With a LEGISLATION like this, France could become the next breeding ground for false university, because if what you claim is true and ¨ROBERT SOURBUNS¨is actually authorized to do whatever the hell they are doing it won´t be long until your wonderful country is filled with this type of nonesence. You are in France, oui? You are a education journalisté, oui? Then why not call the proper authorities and write an article on this "ROBERT SORBON L´ÉCOLE?" Publish your findings so we can read them.

Bonne Chance.

Prends garde!

 

Re: code name: shark bait

When you are conducting regular clasess there is no problem, all must be done under the supervision of your local university, they can also use, by legal mandatory, your own classroons if they need it and you must let the public university to use. If a public university is not agree with your way of teaching in technical areas them they can stablish a complain and you are lost. The problem with Sorbon start when a VAE caming like a law (absolutly legal due that came from the prime minister), and one instituion not conducting regular classes start using this law to give degrees. The law allow to a institution of higher education in a first step, to remaind like this for investigation, conferences, short courses etc... for this évidemment is not necesary to ask for nothing to your university. Sorbon using this new legal scenary (VAE) simply jumped directly from the first step to the degrees and start working like an exclusive instituion dedicated to this with a good number of PhD. There is no other instituion like this on France and actually there is a legal loophole on it, that is whay the academy of Poitiers only can say "is a privated instituion with no pedagogic control" naturellement, they can not say anything due that they do not have any program for studies, due that they are not appling for regular teachings. ONLY IN THE CASE that you are asking for regular teachings you have to submit all your programs.

In my opinion there is only one solution to this, and is that Sorbon looking the great polemic arround them start giving regular classes and conduct all like the rest of the privated instituions to gain credibility or looking the great polemic they will close the doors. I think that in Poitiers they are tied, this is the first case on the history of the education on France. The question is that according with the Code de l'Education they are not making nothing ilegal, may be if someone can prove that they are giving degrees to an incualificated people something can be done. The law is allways one step behind the problem, you have in USA thousands of legal loopholes also with your educational system, and we are not rejecting the rest of your degrees just becasue are coming from USA. Maybe the french authorities if they consider that this could be a problem they could introduce a reform not to allow a non regular teachings instituion to give any kind of degree. Things in education are not a single question, just look at your own system in the last 20 years.

 

Re: code name: shark bait

When you are conducting regular clasess there is no problem, all must be done under the supervision of your local university, they can also use, by legal mandatory, your own classroons if they need it and you must let the public university to use. If a public university is not agree with your way of teaching in technical areas them they can stablish a complain and you are lost. The problem with Sorbon start when a VAE caming like a law (absolutly legal due that came from the prime minister), and one instituion not conducting regular classes start using this law to give degrees. The law allow to a institution of higher education in a first step, to remaind like this for investigation, conferences, short courses etc... for this évidemment is not necesary to ask for nothing to your university. Sorbon using this new legal scenary (VAE) simply jumped directly from the first step to the degrees and start working like an exclusive instituion dedicated to this with a good number of PhD. There is no other instituion like this on France and actually there is a legal loophole on it, that is whay the academy of Poitiers only can say "is a privated instituion with no pedagogic control" naturellement, they can not say anything due that they do not have any program for studies, due that they are not appling for regular teachings. ONLY IN THE CASE that you are asking for regular teachings you have to submit all your programs.

In my opinion there is only one solution to this, and is that Sorbon looking the great polemic arround them start giving regular classes and conduct all like the rest of the privated instituions to gain credibility or looking the great polemic they will close the doors. I think that in Poitiers they are tied, this is the first case on the history of the education on France. The question is that according with the Code de l'Education they are not making nothing ilegal, may be if someone can prove that they are giving degrees to an incualificated people something can be done. The law is allways one step behind the problem, you have in USA thousands of legal loopholes also with your educational system, and we are not rejecting the rest of your degrees just becasue are coming from USA. Maybe the french authorities if they consider that this could be a problem they could introduce a reform not to allow a non regular teachings instituion to give any kind of degree. Things in education are not a single question, just look at your own system in the last 20 years.

 

Re: code name: shark bait

When you are conducting regular clasess there is no problem, all must be done under the supervision of your local university, they can also use, by legal mandatory, your own classroons if they need it and you must let the public university to use. If a public university is not agree with your way of teaching in technical areas them they can stablish a complain and you are lost. The problem with Sorbon start when a VAE caming like a law (absolutly legal due that came from the prime minister), and one instituion not conducting regular classes start using this law to give degrees. The law allow to a institution of higher education in a first step, to remaind like this for investigation, conferences, short courses etc... for this évidemment is not necesary to ask for nothing to your university. Sorbon using this new legal scenary (VAE) simply jumped directly from the first step to the degrees and start working like an exclusive instituion dedicated to this with a good number of PhD. There is no other instituion like this on France and actually there is a legal loophole on it, that is whay the academy of Poitiers only can say "is a privated instituion with no pedagogic control" naturellement, they can not say anything due that they do not have any program for studies, due that they are not appling for regular teachings. ONLY IN THE CASE that you are asking for regular teachings you have to submit all your programs.

In my opinion there is only one solution to this, and is that Sorbon looking the great polemic arround them start giving regular classes and conduct all like the rest of the privated instituions to gain credibility or looking the great polemic they will close the doors. I think that in Poitiers they are tied, this is the first case on the history of the education on France. The question is that according with the Code de l'Education they are not making nothing ilegal, may be if someone can prove that they are giving degrees to an incualificated people something can be done. The law is allways one step behind the problem, you have in USA thousands of legal loopholes also with your educational system, and we are not rejecting the rest of your degrees just becasue are coming from USA. Maybe the french authorities if they consider that this could be a problem they could introduce a reform not to allow a non regular teachings instituion to give any kind of degree. Things in education are not a single question, just look at your own system in the last 20 years.

 

Re: code name: shark bait

When you are conducting regular clasess there is no problem, all must be done under the supervision of your local university, they can also use, by legal mandatory, your own classroons if they need it and you must let the public university to use. If a public university is not agree with your way of teaching in technical areas them they can stablish a complain and you are lost. The problem with Sorbon start when a VAE caming like a law (absolutly legal due that came from the prime minister), and one instituion not conducting regular classes start using this law to give degrees. The law allow to a institution of higher education in a first step, to remaind like this for investigation, conferences, short courses etc... for this évidemment is not necesary to ask for nothing to your university. Sorbon using this new legal scenary (VAE) simply jumped directly from the first step to the degrees and start working like an exclusive instituion dedicated to this with a good number of PhD. There is no other instituion like this on France and actually there is a legal loophole on it, that is whay the academy of Poitiers only can say "is a privated instituion with no pedagogic control" naturellement, they can not say anything due that they do not have any program for studies, due that they are not appling for regular teachings. ONLY IN THE CASE that you are asking for regular teachings you have to submit all your programs.

In my opinion there is only one solution to this, and is that Sorbon looking the great polemic arround them start giving regular classes and conduct all like the rest of the privated instituions to gain credibility or looking the great polemic they will close the doors. I think that in Poitiers they are tied, this is the first case on the history of the education on France. The question is that according with the Code de l'Education they are not making nothing ilegal, may be if someone can prove that they are giving degrees to an incualificated people something can be done. The law is allways one step behind the problem, you have in USA thousands of legal loopholes also with your educational system, and we are not rejecting the rest of your degrees just becasue are coming from USA. Maybe the french authorities if they consider that this could be a problem they could introduce a reform not to allow a non regular teachings instituion to give any kind of degree. Things in education are not a single question, just look at your own system in the last 20 years.

 

Re: code name: shark bait

When you are conducting regular clasess there is no problem, all must be done under the supervision of your local university, they can also use, by legal mandatory, your own classroons if they need it and you must let the public university to use. If a public university is not agree with your way of teaching in technical areas them they can stablish a complain and you are lost. The problem with Sorbon start when a VAE caming like a law (absolutly legal due that came from the prime minister), and one instituion not conducting regular classes start using this law to give degrees. The law allow to a institution of higher education in a first step, to remaind like this for investigation, conferences, short courses etc... for this évidemment is not necesary to ask for nothing to your university. Sorbon using this new legal scenary (VAE) simply jumped directly from the first step to the degrees and start working like an exclusive instituion dedicated to this with a good number of PhD. There is no other instituion like this on France and actually there is a legal loophole on it, that is whay the academy of Poitiers only can say "is a privated instituion with no pedagogic control" naturellement, they can not say anything due that they do not have any program for studies, due that they are not appling for regular teachings. ONLY IN THE CASE that you are asking for regular teachings you have to submit all your programs.

In my opinion there is only one solution to this, and is that Sorbon looking the great polemic arround them start giving regular classes and conduct all like the rest of the privated instituions to gain credibility or looking the great polemic they will close the doors. I think that in Poitiers they are tied, this is the first case on the history of the education on France. The question is that according with the Code de l'Education they are not making nothing ilegal, may be if someone can prove that they are giving degrees to an incualificated people something can be done. The law is allways one step behind the problem, you have in USA thousands of legal loopholes also with your educational system, and we are not rejecting the rest of your degrees just becasue are coming from USA. Maybe the french authorities if they consider that this could be a problem they could introduce a reform not to allow a non regular teachings instituion to give any kind of degree. Things in education are not a single question, just look at your own system in the last 20 years.

 

I do not believe that anyone is asking your country (France) to reject all US degrees because there are ostensibly some bad (unaccredited/millish) US degrees out there (in France).

But you do, in France, have a process for legally and fairly accurately and reasonably sifting the good degrees from the not-so-good ones, do you not?

Yes, there probably are as you state thousands of "legal loopholes" in our educational system here in the USA. Are you intimating that there are none, in France? Is Robert de Sorbon operating (legally) due to a loophole or not, and is it the only such entity in existence? I doubt it.

No matter. Degrees awarded by Robert de Sorbon (this thread is about THIS entity) or any other entity that "educates," looks, acts, smells, or walks like it will forever be substandard and/or unacceptable in most states of the US. The French and Canadian Governments and AACRAO seem to agree with this approach as of today.

Merci.

 

Is absolutly unusefull tray to have any kind of dialogue if each time you take all like a pratiotic question and put out of the context the words traing to look for the hide devil. If you want a war there is a lot of flags to fight for in this crazy world. Is the most stupid conclusion (I am not traing to be ofensive with you) that this is a NBA game, SCORE: France 1 loohole, USA 1000. Whay are you putting all in this manner, we are talking in general about the problem behind, all over the world is the same, as I told you the law is one step behind. The train allways crash me in the rail or in the platform, your intention is to make this a patriotic question at any price for figthing. Ok I am not interested in any kind of enemies, due that I am not interested in any kind of flag. YOU ARE THE WINNER are you happy now?. But for sure you will find again something ofensive on it against you, your family, the 4th of July , the victims of violation, gays an other colectives in dangerous. Are you a compulsive boxer or a educated universitarian person?.
Sincerilly think what you want, I am not married with you, fortunatly. That you have a GOOD REASON TO PUT YOUR RED FLAGS on Sorbon is absolutly normal, I explainded you the ways for that it is happend, but you are more interested time after time in your obsesion with the patriotic atacks.

Ok think about me lke a comunist dead, or like a taliban dead, or like a any invented foreign enemy dead, you are the winner on the war. But let me think about you like a universitarian people with a higt education and citizen of a great nation called USA. This is my choice over your desires. This is my last comentary on this matter here, I am little tired on this no ending way. SINCERILLY JACK God bless you and your familly and God Bless you country also before my own.

 

Milotach,

I am sincerely sorry if my response to your post above may have offended you. It was not meant to offend and it definitely was not meant to be a patriotic (or jingoistic) diatribe of any sort against you. I detest those kinds of things myself. No international incident warranted here.

Please note very carefully that I only responded to "the thousands of legal loopholes in USA" remark which was first made by you - and I specifically related it to Robert de Sorbon's situation and accreditation in general.

Je parle en faveur pour que vous me pardonniez.

Have a good day, mon ami.

Thanks.

 

Ok Jake, is dificult the comunication on diferent languajes. But on this forum many people conducting all to this land of war. By the way in the Sorbon issue we are in the same side, if they are making something ilegal I hope they will be closed by the french authorities soon. I was traing to explain all of you very clear what is the legal frame and situation on France so that you can have a better understanding of the problem taking distance of the object, and at the same time to preseve the rights of thousands of students here going daily to their Ecoles and Insituts because the information gave it about Sorbon in relation with the eduacional system was not correct and could afect to many persons when the informations is on the lips of a public worker in your country, that is all. Finnly I am glad that both of us have the same vision of this old and tired world.

Best Regards.

La statue de la liberté a été une flatterie de la France

The statue of the freedom was a present of France.

 

magic

 

milotach

Viva la France

Viva la liberté !

 

Re: magic

Originally posted by chud
OK, last time I tried posting an e-mail, I was blasted as a shill, and that the post MUST be forged. But if Alan can post his, I'll give it a try....

You sir, are magical! This was your first post, who did you become "blasted?"



Directly from AC Poitiers:

From: Maryvonne Desvard [[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 9:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: ecole robert de sorbon

L'école robert de sorbon est un établissement d'enseignement supérieur privé sur lequel l'éducation nationale n'exerce pas de controle pédagogique
bonne réception
M Desvard. SPM 3
So, Sorbon IS an private enseignement Superieur according to Poitiers, but is not under the instructional control of government, as indicated by Milotach.
__________________

What I indicated was exactly what Poitiers is telling they were not under the control of Poitiers, they are using the legal loophole about not to condut clasess. Here is the original pharagraph where I told this on my FIRST post.

"What happend now with Robert de Sorbon?, is very easy THEY ARE NOT GIVING CLASESS, they are legal registered according with the educational code of the education, this code say that IF YOU ARE NOT GIVING REGULAR CLASESS you do not need to apply for this permission and can continue with your activities like a privated instituion of Higher education in other areas like a conferences, short courses, investigation, etc"...

And to finish for ever and ever I said this so that everybody can understand the question

"The problem with Sorbon start when a VAE caming like a law (absolutly legal due that came from the prime minister), and one instituion not conducting regular classes start using this law to give degrees. The law allow to a institution of higher education in a first step, to remaind like this for investigation, conferences, short courses etc... for this évidemment is not necesary to ask for nothing to your university. Sorbon using this new legal scenary (VAE) simply jumped directly from the first step to the degrees and start working like an exclusive instituion dedicated to this"...

Them LEGAL LOOPHOLE? SIR, YES SIR.
Is very easy to obtain the letter that they are showing in their web page, is as simple as that: take a paper and write Dear Monsieur Recteur of the Universite de Poitiers, I am the President of Ecole Superieur Robert de Sorbon, could you please indicated to me wich are the requeriments to open our regular course and start giving classes?.
For sure after some days you will receive a letter on your name explaining wich are this conditions on this université. Now you have a letter to show but nobody can know if you applied or not, by the answer of Poitiers all seems to say that they are doing nothing. Final dot. There is nothing more to coment on it. I think is very clear.

 

Isn't that precisely what you are doing?

Oregon and apparently the AACRAO have decided that Sorbon does not have the equivalent of American regional accreditation. You seem to have interpreted that conclusion as an affront to and disrespect for all French ecoles, and are protesting loudly for what seem like patriotic reasons.

My point is that if these ecoles (at least those that don't receive government funding and the oversight that entails) lack credible outside quality assurance, then they aren't accredited, as Americans in general and Oregon in particular understand that term.

You argue that they have to be approved by their local university or something, and you imply that Americans are somehow obligated to accept that local recognition as the equivalent of RA. But I wonder if that's really wise, particularly if questionable schools can obtain a local approval, as Sorbon apparently claims that they have done.

From half the world away, this looks suspiciously like the widespread confusion about American "state approval".

Again, I'm aware that many of the most prestigious schools in France are ecoles. I don't doubt that these fine institutions could win quick ODA recognition if any of their graduates asked for it.

But if we can't rely on the fact that all of the members of this class have received reliable outside oversight and verification, and particularly if questionable schools manage to slip through, then the acceditation-equivalence of the entire French non-university class can't just be automatically and uncritically assumed.

There's nothing nationalistic about that common-sense observation.

I believe that people need to exercise similar caution about American degree programs.

 

Ok Bill no again, no more please. You and me discussed this previously. For me is enought what you say up this words. Please final agreement. I am 100% agree with you on it as you are explaining in this 2 points. I told you this previously but may be you do not remember. And by the way it is not in any maner a patriotic discusion is about an individual rights of the people like a students around the world. Now that we are agree I will finish my post here. Thanks for this interesting exchange of opinions