Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

6. Agreed that RA utility is superior to DETC. On the other hand, DETC schools are far far FAR superior to unaccredited.

 

1 - USDOE & CHEA sets the standards for all accrediting agencies.

2 - The six RA's each set the standards for member schools in their own regions. These standards vary according to the will of the individual RA. A school accepted for accreditation in one region may well have been refused in another.

3- No RA sets the standards for any of the other accreditors, just among member schools in its region. Each type of accreditor has its own separate standards.

4- The USDOE nor CHEA place the values of any accreditor above another.

5- That the RA's represent the most schools/students is obvious, but this does not set a national standard by which all other accreditors must act. Only USDOE or CHEA can speak on behalf of all accreditors.

 

1. USDOE and CHEA sets standards for accreditors to meet its definition of accreditors. DETC clearly meets this minimal standard as do the RAs and other accreditors.

2. As a group they have established the minimal standards that are acceptable to the group as whole. That is why credit from a west coast RA school would be accepted by an east coast RA school.

3. See above. They obviously DO set a group standard.

4. Agreed.

5. Wrong. In the US the accepted and desired standard is clearly RA. The vast majority of ALL US schools ARE RA. Virtually all TOP tier schools ARE RA. Non-RA schools would choose RA if they had the means/ability to achieve such. This does not mean there aren't other niche accreditors that do a good job and have at least some utility. USDOE and CHEA do NOT speak on behalf of all accreditors. They speak on behalf of USDOE and CHEA.

 

DETC Accreditation is going to expand it's wherewithal to meet the demands of more and more distance education learners. I feel that more older students are going back to college and society is becoming more fast paced. Fast paced distance learning and internet learning will mean more universities and colleges to meet the demands.

Many will become RA and many more will be DETC. I don't feel that RA universities would soon accept DETC credits as that would be bad for business. RA universities have enough competition with each other and would not wish to lose the business hence DETC universities have the uphill battle.

In the work place, DETC universities have acceptance and are considered with any other credentials.

 

Hi Michael

It is hard to say what any group will do in the future. Certainly, it will be interesting to see how DETC and unaccredited schools respond to the changing marketplace.

Education is definately changing at a furious pace. Perhaps the biggest change is how many established universities have changed at their very foundation. At the end of the 70's most were very formidable and inflexible. While many have continued in that tradition, I have seen quite a few that see their future depends upon responding to the customer and fully meeting their needs. Several of the RAs have also seen this and have accredited schools that in the past might not have been accredited. NCU and AMU are good examples. Again it will be interesing to see how both DETC and RAs face future changes.

DETC degrees certainly have better acceptance in the workplace than in academic circumstances. There still are many situations were a DETC degree is not acceptable in the business world.

 

Hi Dave

You bring up some excellent points. One which will be interesting is how unaccredited schools adapt to the changing marketplace, information age and society awareness.

In light of recent events (ie Laura Callahan) among others, I predict unaccredited schools are going to be put under more scrutiny. This will cause some of the better ones to hopefully get proper accreditation. Others will lose business and/or have to adapt. Either way it will bring about change hopefully for the better.

The ripple effect will hit DETC with more applications from the better unaccredited universities. This will be the DETC's chance to step up and ensure the highest standards. That will hopefully bring about better acceptance for DETC degrees.

Wishful thinking... I know, however I do see DETC schools heading in the right direction.

Regards,

Mike

 

The very fact that the USDOE and CHEA recognizes other forms of accreditation other than RA, forces RA schools to adapt their strategy to include non-traditional learners and distance programs if they are going to remain competitive for the almighty dollar. (Let us stop lying to ourselves...this has very little to do with educational integrity and more to do about money...for the school, student, government, etc.)This competition for students then is a good thing. This is the same thing that has happened with some speciality unacredited schools that have cut into the profits of some RA schools. The RA schools had to adapt their strategy or continue to lose money. So they have adapted.

Secondly I find it wildly hysterical and amusing that we holler about acreditation that is properly recognized by the USDOE and CHEA, but then still continue to split acrediting hairs ad infinitum as to which acreditor is better than the other. We slot all unacredited schools as being a waste of time and money, especially now that there are some many RA alternatives. Fine. Then we cut of all State Approved Schools sans California because the rules vary from state to state and are wildly inconsistent. So a California state apporoved may be okay, but a Florida, Nebraska, Texas or Washington State is not. Fine.

Now amongst those that insist only upon attending a school that has been acredited by the USDOE and CHEA approved acreditors there is still a great disagreement between which is really worth it. Strangely no one that has professional or national acreditation through these approved USDOE and CHEA acreditors do not attack the RA defenders, but the RA defenders are always attacking all others, even those that have been approved by USDOE and CHEA. (This is not a debate on unacredited schools)When one defends themself for their personal choice, they are attacked more vehemently. Sounds like kids arguing over whose dad is bigger than the other and can beat the other up if pushed into a challenge. One friend in complaining about this same mentality between certain graduates of certain theological schools called it academic arrogance. Sometimes I wonder can that apply with this discussion over which USDOE and CHEA acreditors are better than the other. If it is good enough for the USDOE and CHEA, so now what is the problem? They are approved. If they want to go on to graduate school, or not, that is their choice.

Thirdly it is genrally expected that RA credits will automatically transfer to another RA institution, hence the advantage of RA acreditation above all others. However each school, RA included, have the right to assess each individuals credits at the time of application and determine what they will and will not accept from any other institution. That is an individual institutions right, regardless of the type of USDOE and CHEA acreditation standard a school maintains.

 

1. RA is such a vast majority of the USA educational system that I seriously doubt that they are worried about unaccredited schools taking their business or DETC schools taking their business. It is inaccurate to consider RA schools a monopoly. The real competition is between RA schools not between RA and non-RA (DETC and unaccredited).

2. I believe that the academic community is genuinely concerned about quality education and meeting the required educational needs for as large of a population as possible. This is true whether the school is for profit or non-profit. It is true because responsible professionals want to do a good job.

3. Many of the states that you list don't even allow unaccredited general education schools.

4. People are not attacked for personal choices made. People are corrected when they make false statements. You are just setting up strawmen so that you can knock them down. RA has more utility than the other choices. If you don't believe it then fine. There are still people that actually believe that the world is flat.

5. RA credits are going to be far easier to transfer to other RA schools than any other kind of credit.

 

The national standards for education rest within the hands of the USDOE & CHEA, which have allowed many accreditors. Had it been their desire to do so only RA's would exist. Instead they chose to act through many kinds of accrediting agencies. I submit to you that this chosen diversity is the true standard of education. That many accreditors making use of high values would best promote the needs & values of our country, and not to place all accreditation authority into one or even a few places. This was wise and is working, not perfectly, but well. RA is the dominant partner, representing the most schools and their students, but it doesn't exist in limbo, acting only by itself, but exists as a part of the educational mosaic, acting on and being acted upon by all other sources. RA is an important part of the standards but does not represent by itself a totality of standards.

 

James

You are incorrect when you say USDOE and CHEA create the US standard. Both unaccredited and unapproved (by USDOE and CHEA) accredited schools lawfully exist in the US. If we add ALL non-RA schools up what percent of US schools are we talking about? 1%? Less? I hate to repeat it, but RA schools count for, perhaps 99% or more of US schools. All of the top tier tier schools are RA. Any school that is non-RA that can moves to RA. It is clear the defacto US standard is RA.

I completely agree that competition improves both the accreditors and schools. It has been pointed out previously that there are unaccredited schools that offer programs that are unique. Both legitimate unaccredited and non-RA schools put pressure on RAs that is healthy.

 

Today's economy has had a serious effect on the educational market. The technology to deliver distance learning to a student on-line in a less expensive fashion has absolutely caused concern for many RA universities. I have seen the brick & morter universities advertising all over the place about their new and innovative delivery of classes for the "adult learner". They aren't only competing with each other.

Distance education is becoming very popular. Adult students are going back to finish their degrees,or get their Masters. It is a big business and there is competition for students all the way around RA & DETC.

It is not advantageous for RA universities to accept DETC university credits. Why should they? That would encourage students to get their degree from an alternative provider and thin out their market share.

 

"While some DETC member institutions have fewer than 500 students, various Armed Forces institutes have enrollments of more than 500,000 students."
Source- Campus Free Degrees, Thorson's Guide 9th edition, page 37

 

How many of these top tier schools offer distance learning degrees?

 

Many. Just off the top my head Harvard, Penn State, Columbia, Duke and Stanford.

 

If we are talking a college credit class I highly doubt that figure. If we are talking some training cbt from the military to military personnel perhaps. Again DETC and all other non-RA options are an extremely small percent of all university level courses. Perhaps 1% or less?

 

Hi Michael

I agree that both adult education and distance learning have become very important componets of education market.

Actually many RA schools will gladly accept DETC credits. Others may in the right sdituation. Some will outright reject them.

 

But 2/3 of the DETC graduates who wished to go on to traditional colleges had their credits and degrees accepted.

 

What you are suggesting is far from set in stone. While DETC's own 2001 survey found 2/3 of credits and degrees were accepted, this only accounts for the DETC students who even attempted to transfer units/degrees.

2/3 of all DETC students don't transfer credits. Why they don't is certainly up for debate. This cannot necessarily be construed as what you suggest ("who wished to go on..."). I could just as easily say that they didn't submit their credits because they knew they weren't equivalent. Also not entirely accurate.

John Bear's research showed only 19% of registrars routinely always accept DETC credits/degrees.



Tom Nixon

 

While this figure is not set in stone, it is further evidence that RA universities and society is changing.

Distance colleges and universities are in more demand than ever and DETC accreditation is becoming much more accepted.

Future surveys will undoubtedly be changing in the direction of more DETC acceptance.

 

They are not set, and for good reason. They will be accepted more and more. I expect that the acceptance is above 2/3 right now. The DETC offers high quality education at affordable prices. How can you beat that deal? In the private business sector DETC grads are already doing great and with more and more RA schools finally accepting the degrees and credits from DETC, it will only get better. Besides the DETC can provide uniform accrediting standards all across the country, unlike RA 's which cover only small parts of the country each. No more shopping around for RA schools looking for the best deal from the easier RA's. The DETC is the real expert at Distance Education.