Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

You make an excellent point James,

Distance education is the present but also the big wave of the future! It is inevitable that you will see more and more students being able to transfer from RA universities to DETC and back without any issues. It is already over 2/3 acceptance rate and that was 2 years ago.

The future will hold many more distance education choices and DETC accreditation is coming into the forefront.

 

And I expect to be winning the lottery any day now.

 

I partly agree with this, although for the near future (in other words, until technology can do as good or better job, especially for those who need the personal contact) I believe that there will be a big place reserved for the residential student.

It is inevitable that there will be ONE system accepted by the government. Both of these statements solve problems, but I really would ask a simple question of each. Why?

It is amazing how phantoms and questionable statistical references can be transmorphed into facts...in the lifetime of a thread.

Yes it will, and maybe it could. I don't really see that the DETC is coming into the forefront though. APUS is going for RA. If they get it (and I believe that this would be a first for a DETC school to move on to RA,) I believe it will open the floodgates of the better NA schools attempting RA. Why? Because they know that RA is the gold standard.

Tony

BTW, what school are you attending?

 

The 2001 study of DETC graduates showed that of all the students who wished to transfer credits or degrees to traditional schools, 2/3 were accepted.

Source- DETC web site

 

I briefly looked at the DETC website. Since it does not have a search function, and I did not want to spend significant time looking, I did not find this study. How about posting a link to the actual page that it is on?

Was this a scientific study or a poll posted on their website? (Although I'm sure that there are many people here who think that those are equally legitimate...)

Moreover, did the study really show that 2/3 of those who *wished* to transfer credits were accepted? If so, how did they determine that. And, if so, of those 2/3, how many of the credits they had earned were accpeted? 1/2, 2/3, 1/32? Obviously, this makes a huge difference.

Also, I would want to know whether this is truly a cross-section of DETC schools. It might be that there is one school whose credits are regularly accpeted, and that credits from others are rarely, if ever, accepted.

If this is a legitimate study that has taken all of these (and many other factors) into consideration, then more power to them. I would be interested to see it in full detail. If not, well...

 

www.detc.org/content/accred.html click about us / FAQ
If you wish to you could e-mail the DETC to get more information on the study.

 

Here's the relevant quote from the DETC web site.

I would be very surprised if all the credits were accepted but if it's a program that ACE has evaluated then those credits would be very transferable.

 

Hi Tony,

Through all of this discussion I am of the opinion that there is a place for DETC accreditied universities. I still am an advocate of RA universities also.

I am just not of the opinion that just because a school is DETC it is substandard to RA. That is not the case and an unfair comparison.

BTW you will find my favorite university at www.apus.edu

 

There is nothing substandard about the DETC. It is recognized under GAPP, CHEA, and USDOE.

 

I agree. I'm a fan of several DETC-accredited schools, and am considering a master's program at one once my current works-in-progress are finished.

It's a USDOE-recognized accreditor, which for my employer (the largest in the country) is "close enough for government work." But much as I like some of its schools, it still lacks the academic recognition of RA, either inside or outside the States. For example, the University of London, as of earlier this year at least, wouldn't accept a bachelor's degree from a DETC-accredited school for admission under the "graduate entry" route of its LLB program. Likewise, many professional licensing authorities (state boards of accountancy, for example) won't recognize credits earned at DETC-accredited schools for licensing purposes.

You confuse quality and legitimacy with utility. The current limitations on utility are explicitly why I won't recommend a DETC-accredited school for a first undergraduate degree. Even assuming the "2/3 of the 1/3 who tried" is accurate, why would you take a chance? Would you do your banking at an bank that had "2/3 of 1/3" acceptance of its credit cards among the universe of merchants that accept credit cards at all?

 

There's two issues that may be getting confused. (or maybe not?)

1. Utility of the degree, respect people have for the school
2. Educational quality

These two things are very different and when I say that RA is the gold standard and DETC is the silver standard, I'm referring to number one above.

 

Isn't that three?

 

I agree that there was some confusion on this issue.

1. I am hopeful that in the future, the utility of the DETC degree improves. Respect is earned. DETC universities have the uphill battle to ensure they accredit excellent universities and win academia and public confidence. While many DETC universities are right there, they still are behind many RA universities. I absolutely agree with you.

2. The quality of DETC university education is comparable to many RA universities. In no way are they (DETC) better, but they are comparable.

 

I disagree-U.Cal. Berkeley- Stanford-Harvard-Yale -Princeton-M.I.T. these are the elite, these are the gold standards.
Not DETC schools, not Excelsior/Western Governors Univ/ Charter Oak State College/ Thomas Edison State College/

No, I'm afraid DETC and lower level to mid-level RA/DL have more in common than differences. We're both part of the silver crowd. But that's ok by me. I'll take a load of the stuff. As to any utility differences between DETC and RA. The general population doesn't even know the difference between Approved and Accredited. How in the world would they have the slightest idea of differences between DETC and RA?

 

James

I am really not sure how to take your posts. It has been pointed out that DETC clearly has lower utility and stature. In that sense yes it is substandard. If you are simply stating it is a valid accreditor with what seems like reasonable standards and member schools you are of course correct. That makes your blanket statement untrue.

 

You are definately correct. When John Smith asks you if your degree is accredited, you can simply say yes and he will never have a clue. When you apply for a job, entry to a grad school, or other career related post you likely will be talking to someone who understands what the US standard is and that DETC while legitimate is not RA. At that point it is doubtful they will even question it further. They will just reject it and move on to the next application.

 

?

 

If you are young, have great grades, and the financial resources, go to the best B & M college you can get in. If you are a mature adult, find the purse a bit flat, and don't have the grades, or time to sit in a Harvard classroom. The DETC will provide an opportunity to earn career diplomas or college degrees. These are meat and potatoes education for the mature adult. If you are willing to study books and take tests, some proctored, you can earn a good quality degree, acceptable in almost all conditions. The prices are low and the quality good. The DETC has been working with distance learners since 1926, they know their business, distance education.

 

Again James, I haven't heard anyone say that DETC is bad. A DETC may be the best school for a particular person in a particular situation, e.g., AMU for someone in the military. RA is generally a better choice, especially for an undergraduate degree because it will have better utility. There are many more options for RA, many of which will be very competitive price wise.

 

What we have here is a false polarity: Harvard vs. DETC. The faux populism wants to rouse our "honest mechanic" resentment (as President Johnson--no, the other President Johnson--used to say) against spoiled rich brats who go to Hahvahd, so that our worthy indignation against luxurious parasites rouses us to flock round the banner of DETC.

Oh please.

The real polarity isn't between Harvard and DETC, but between your friendly neighbourhood community college or any number of state universities and DETC. This is where the argument for superiority of DETC falls flat. OK, OK, pace what's his name who had a turd in his pocket about Cheyney State, I'm sure there are some state universities and community colleges which are inferior to some DETC schools, and vice versa. The problem in all this is that, by making exaggerated claims for DETC, its genuine worthiness is obscured. A really worthwhile school--or a really respectable and legitimate accreditor--does not require, and is not well served by, cosmic claims to limitless wonderfulness.

The basic problem with the faux populist appeal is that it rather closely echoes the come-on from degree mills that runs something like this: "Are you tired of smart kids with real degrees getting promoted while you suck it in at the water cooler? Come to St. Kingo and get your own real accredited doctorial degree authorized by the Central African Republic. We recognize how much smarter you are by coming out of the school of hard knocks. We'll recognize how a little battler like you is just plain better than some university-educated poofter with a ring in his ear. St. Kingo--your money magnet and jungle footpath to prestige!"

What has been lost in this thread is the fact that DETC does not make this kind of Huey Long appeal. Unlike some of its defenders, DETC does not need to do so.

Curious, no?

Aux barricades, mes enfants!