Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

I notice that you list, among your RA credentials, the MBA/DBA from California Coast University. What has your experience been in terms of utility of the CCU degrees, i.e., recognition, acceptance by peers, opportunity for promotion, salary incentives, etc..?

Thanks,

 

The degrees have been useful. They have helped establish authority in the subject and have served as a good basis for my professional certifications which have actually been referred to more than the degrees. The school is a pioneer in distance learning but lacks general prestige. I think the DBA is valuable education and is a competitive differentiator from the many MBAs. The DBA isn't as recognized as a PhD and I've had to explain what it means several times. I am occasionally referred to as Dr. (not at my request). Several years ago someone once teased it was a "mail-order degree", however he was quickly set right when he learned how long it actually takes. "State certified and approved" have been good enough to explain quality. I've graduated from traditional RA programs and have found that the body of knowledge in business and management acquired through the CCU degree process is the same as any business school or major corporation that I have knowledge of.

 

Thank you, Kirkland. Much has been said regarding CCU and the utility of their degrees. I just wanted to hear your personal experience with the CCU degrees, especially the doctorate.

 

Re: Re: Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

I have noticed a distinct tendency on the part of the general public to assume that unaccredited equals degree mill. The concern I would personally have with a CCU degree is those people that think it but don't mention it, unlike the person in your example. If CCU becomes accredited it will be much nicer to say that the school you received the degree at is now accredited although it wasn't accredited at the time of your degree.

 

Re: Re: Re: Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

This is also the problem I have with my doctorate. Although earned at a regionally and ATS accredited school, I often fear that people are thinking, "Why didn't this guy attend Harvard or Oxford?"

 

Re: Re: Re: Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

This is so sad. There is also a tendency in the general public to assume and associate all distance learning methodologies with degree mill. In my limited experience schooling that is done online is ridiculed as not being legitimate, regardless of the type of accreditation (or lack thereof) that they have. Accreditation is usually not the first thing the general public looks for, but their own personal awareness of the school and it's programs. Unfortunatley many still feel if you did not physically go to class, you did not go to school and that can only be done in their estimation the traditional brick and mortar route.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

...meanwhile my mother turns over in her grave because I did not attend Princeton....

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

Now you blew it. I was always thinking "Did Russell attend Harvard or Oxford?"

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

This may be true in the general public but IIRC Rich Douglas' survey indicated that it wasn't true for human resource personnel.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

Sorry, but no. My research was on accreditation and other forms of institutional recognition.

Vault.com did a survey a few years ago that showed a lower level of acceptance of degrees earned entirely online. Some employers had problems with the learning method. Others thought that only degree mills did that. But they also indicated they wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a degree earned online and one earned in the classroom--how could they?

 

Rich, thank you for the correction and the information.

 

There are risks in taking the state approved route. It is not understood by many (especially those with the "it's accredited or it's a degree mill" mindset) and can be mischaracterized. It may not meet specific needs for licensing or transfer to other schools. However, it is legitimate and can be defended if need be. Many in corporate business don't know or care about the distinction of state approved vs accredited, but policies demand that it be legitimate, legal, and ethical. I chose the state-approved route for a number of reasons. I already had 3 RA degrees and significant experience in the portfolio, so continuing education was really for my personal, professional growth and not a requirement. CCU was at the time operating under CA law (Section 94310(b)) which equated CA state approval with US DOE recognized accreditation, they were affiliated with a legitimate accreditor seeking US DOE recognition (that didn't happen and CCU separated from them), the body of knowledge taught was the same as other business schools, their program was focused on mid-career adults/executives, and their price point and ROI were exceptional. Things have changed since then and there are a lot of flexible, accredited schools to choose from.

 

Well said, CCU is legitimate, legal, and ethical. The complete opposite of a degree mill. It requires much work and testing to earn a degree, and this provides the proof that it is a real school.

 

CCU degrees are illegal in multiple states. Using a CCU degree in these states would apparently be illegitimate and illegal. Completely in line with a degree mill. The real judge as to whether or not a school meets the standard is accreditation.

Whether or not CCU is a degree mill depends on the person's definition of degree mill. I believe that most people that have a general understanding of accreditation would consider any unaccredited school a degree mill. This is the way it is. Making silly claims that people are committing libel because they voice the common opinion would seem to be an act similar to pissing into the wind, at least to me.

 

I disagree, Bill. Indeed, many, if not the greater percentage of unaccredited schools perhaps border on the less-than-wonderful. But to broadly paint all unaccredited schools with the degree mill brush is, IMHO, stretching it somewhat.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Question for Kirkland Regarding California Coast University

In the past two years I've observed a significant change in the way major corporations conduct training, many opting for online as being efficient and cost-effective. And with many traditional brick & mortar universities offering online options, I think this has had an extremely positive influence on the acceptance of distance degrees in the commercial sector.

 

I agree with you. I don't consider all unaccredited schools to be degree mills. My intended point was that my experience in the general population is that when someone is told that a school is unaccredited they generally seem to believe that the school is a degree mill or they ask what accreditation is and then assume that it's a degree mill after the explanation. The very interesting point that Rich brought up is that if told the school is state approved instead of unaccredited then his study indicates that the acceptance goes up almost as high for state approved as accredited.

The further point I was trying to make was that as a general rule, I believe that it is not unreasonable for the general population to equate unaccredited schools with degree mills. For most purposes it works and it's easy. They're not likely to run into many if any exceptions in their own experience. When they do the unaccredited degree holder from CCU or BJU or ? should best just shrug their shoulders and accept it as one of the disadvantages of going with an unaccredited institution.

 

I agree with these statements. When a school is correctly described as what it is, State Approved, it's as Bill describes, acceptance goes up to a very high level. The point I've been making all along. It's only when the term "Unaccredited" is used trying to lump Approved, Self-Validated, and Degree Mills together does the perception among the general public turn negative. When a job application is presented, including a degree from an approved school, it has good acceptance. At most one may have to explain approval. When it's described correctly as being a state licensed/approved degree, its acceptance will be high. A degree mill, self validated, and state approved are each different and cannot be placed in the same container. To try and describe all by the one word is inaccurate. It's just as unfair to describe all DL schools together under one term. Some are good some of lesser quality. The news report with Dan Rather was a good example of vagueness. Some watching the program will have a resistricted outlook towards distance education. All forms of distance education must each stand alone, each according to what it is. To try to find one word to describe all schools that are different than RA is obviously an attempt to lessen state approved to gain advantage in discussion. Un-is used as a tool of debate to gain advantage, not as an accurate descriptive term of approved schools.

 

I think, at least to some degree, you are missing the point. The only reason the state approved group went up so high is because people confuse state approved with RA. If it was clearly explained exactly what it is and that no major university is "state approved", you would likely see degree mill, unaccredited, and state aproved lumped together.

While the difference between these groups are important to you, the general public ranks them as either accredited or degree mill. To the general public accredited=RA. This doesn't mean there isn't value in other programs, it just means that is the perception graduates of non-RA programs have to deal with.

Will it change over time? That is hard to say. Now that the RA group has opened up to so many DL programs, I think there is a good chance state approved schools will disappear. DETC has done an amazing job building brand name. My guess is we will end up with mainly degree mills and RA schools with DETC filling a small niche market.

Also realize there is a danger if DETC ends up accrediting too many of the lower grade shools. They may become known as the accreditor of last resort. I think they would be much wiser to seek out high quality schools like Aspen University. The difficulty there is that when given a choice DETC schools will switch to RA like AMU is currently doing.

 

If recent history means anything, DETC accredits about 30 % of the schools that apply. If experience credits and proctoring of exams means anything, DETC is a tougher accreditor. Note that they are quick to boot out members such as Azaliah, when questions come to light.

I am sure that AMU seriously wants to offer doctorates. Note that they had to move into the domain of the North Central Assoc. to have a chance at regional accreditation.

I think DETC is making a special effort at not allowing anything less than serious academic programs into the club.