More on Breyer State University's Faculty

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Rich Douglas, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    "Vinipink" started this, and I'm going to let him end it--mainly because it has gone way off topic. (Nice job on that, "Vinipink.")

    I've never hidden a thing regarding MIGS. In fact, the only things anyone knows about MIGS and my involvement come from me telling about it. Nothing to hide, never has been. If "Vinipink" actually has something to ask--as opposed to vague insinuations--he can send me a PM. He's turned this thread into a one-on-one conversation, which is not in accordance with good netiquette. I've answered is inanity enough.
  2. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    Let's keep it where we began, sorry to bring the MIGS situation!
    But it is History in the making in Distance Learning!
  3. carlosb

    carlosb New Member

    Please do not let the malcontents on this board ruin another thread. I appreciate your insight and background. We have enough with the anti-Northcentral trolls and their wild claims about conspiracies and multiple user accounts. As if the owner and moderators here could not figure that out if it were true and take action. The malcontents are getting desperate and it shows.

    In fact they sound and act like some at another forum not very friendly to RA degrees. Same childish name-calling of schools they do not like.

    Back on topic:

    Is there any legitimate private school that also uses "State" in their name like BSU does? First time I heard the name I though public-funded state school.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2007
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Not that I know of, but one comes entirely too close. American Military University decided several years ago to branch out into decidedly non-military-related degree programs. Upon doing so, they decided to start two other schools under their umbrella. To distinguish them from AMU, they called the new schools "American Public University" and a community college they've since taken down. "Public" as opposed to "Military" to denote the school's non-military-related offerings (such as an MBA). But the word "Public" has a very specific meaning in U.S. higher education, and I felt the name was unnecessarily misleading. A private school shouldn't call itself "Public" in its name.

    There is a rather strange example, "Capstone University" that used to call itself "Central State University." I think they changed the name in preparation for a DETC bid, but that might not be right. Anyway, another example of a private school crossing this line, but not anymore. (They've reintroduced a doctoral program, never a good sign for a school's DETC bid.)
  5. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    I was going to let died but here we go!

    levicoff Posts: n/a


    Originally posted by tcnixon:
    "#1 reason: No full-time faculty or staff. If it were me, I would hire Rich Douglas to run it. I have no doubt that, with his abilities, he could turn it into a credible program within a relatively short period of time.

    However, that takes viewing it as an educational endeavor and not as a (solely) money-making one. I'm not sure that is going to happen. Which is a shame."

    Dr. Levicoff
    "I must respectfully disagree with my distinguished colleague Tom here. While I'm sure Rich is a nice guy (not to mention a disinguished military hero, according to that prestigious journal AED News), the fact remains that, if Rich completes the doctoral process at MIGS, (1) he will still have an unaccredited doctorate, and (2) he will have a homegrown degree from a new institution and no significant experience as a doctoral advisor or faculty member, let alone a doctoral program administrator.

    There is no doubt that he has been successful as MIGS' primary apologist and sales representative (second in sales, I would imagine, only to the banner ads that have appeared to be MIGS' primary advertising venue). But, notwithstanding his enthusiasm and vested interest, he needs more experience under his belt to become a program administrator.

    Of course, if they were to hire him to run it, it would certainly be a feather in my cap. Therefore, if Rich desires it, I will be pleased to write a glowing recommendation letter to the MIGS Board of Trustees . . ."

    and from more from the archives:

    Originally posted by Rich Douglas:
    ". . . I doubt seriously I'll have any role with MIGS beyond graduation.

    Regarding the "unaccredited doctorate," you are wrong. You can disagree with CEU's recognition regarding its right to award the degree, but it exists."

    Dr. Levicoff

    "I have never disagreed with CEU's recognition in Mexico, nor its right to award the degree, any more than I have ever disagreed with the right of Century, LaSalle, or any other degree mill to award degrees. They have clearly had that right, but it has not made their degrees credible. The right to award degrees is determined by law, by authorization from a governmental entity, or by lack of such authorization if no law exists to cover the awarding of degrees. But, as in the past, we are talking about legal (which is in question, not in terms of CEU awarding degrees, but in terms of MIGS' authority to operate in the U.S.) versus legitimate (about which sufficient issues have been raised to make MIGS look quite sleazy).

    As for not having a role with MIGS beyond graduation, I predict that Rich will still act as an apologist for MIGS - not to recruit students in the role of "research assistant," but to defend questions about his own degree."

    That is only a snip if you do a research there are still more goodies about this subject in the board about this unfound accusations and conspiracies. :eek:
  6. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Ancient history. You should move on Vinnie.

  7. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    Thanks, I did!

    So the rest of you!
  8. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Another thing that makes me question Breyer is the tremendous number of degree programs that they offer. It's extremely ambitious, suggesting a University of California campus more than an insubstantial online mystery-school.

    There are 35 bachelors degree majors, 20 masters programs and 15 doctoral programs. How Breyer manages to offer 70 programs with only 13 faculty who have accredited doctorates is another of the mysteries, I guess.

    Here's the bachelors majors:

    American Studies
    Art History
    Aviation Management
    Broadcasting & Mass Communications
    Business Administration
    with a Specialty Major
    Business Administration
    Chemical Dependency Counseling
    Christian Counseling
    Clinical Hypnotherapy
    Computer Systems & Information Technology
    Counseling Psychology
    Criminal Justice
    Early Childhood Care
    E-Business & Commerce
    Equine Studies
    Executive Assistant Management
    Financial Management
    Grief Counseling & Bereavement Education
    Health Care Administration
    Hotel / Restaurant / Food Service Management
    Human Resource Management
    Human Services
    Interior Design
    Marketing Management
    Metaphysical Clinical Hypnotherapy
    Metaphysics & Spiritual Counseling
    Paralegal Studies
    Pastoral Thanatology
    (Pre-Med) Life & Health Sciences
    Public Administration
    Religious Studies & Catechetical Instruction

    Here's the doctoral programs:

    Addictions Counseling Psychology
    Business Administration
    Clinical Hypnotherapy
    Counseling Psychology
    Criminal Justice
    Grief Counseling
    Health Care Administration
    International Business
    Juris Doctorate
    Metaphysics & Spiritual Counseling
    Nursing Science
    Organizational Psychology
    Pastoral Counseling and Thanatology
  9. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    The real question may be whether they have enough horsepower at the doctoral level including all of those at that level, regardless of the educational system. The expertise required for some of those disciplines, such as the MS Animal Psychology (not listed below), is rare even in the RA system. Also, they have a Pre-Med Life Sciences BS! In my opinion, no, they don't have enough doctoral horsepower (including the unaccredited doctorates) on the whole to support those degree offerings with appropriate faculty.

    With regard to marketing communications, the self-accreditation thing and using "State" in the name combined are misleading marketing tools. Moreover, BSU is an unfortunate school acronym, which reminds me of Pepperdine University and Fairfield University...

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2007
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Just a what point would a legitimately accredited, well-known school start to raise eyebrows with "home grown" faculty?

    For example, would anyone care or even take notice if 90% of the University of Chicago's Sociology faculty had their doctorates from Chicago?

    What about 50% of Northcentral's Business faculty?

    At what point does one draw the line, and does it make a difference if it's an online or otherwise non-traditional school?
  11. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster


    All valid points.

    But I guess it is hard to say!
  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Interesting question, Bruce. Or what about Dakota State University, where a significant portion of their Information Systems faculty have or are pursuing PhDs from Capella? Does that represent too little a diversity of experience among the department?

  13. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    How about Mountain State University in West Virginia ?

    Legitimate and regionally-accredited, but private. Not a state university.
  14. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I think Mountain State University's name is potentially confusing, but I'm willing to cut them some slack, given the particular circumstances.

    There's no doubt that West Virginia is commonly known as the "Mountain State", and this fact is surely well known to the students who apply or enroll there (75% of their students are from West Virginia, and most of the rest are probably from neighboring states). So one could reasonably interpret "Mountain State University" to mean "a university in the Mountain State", and not "a state university named Mountain".

    But there does not appear to be any similar justification for Breyer State University's name. Neither Alabama, nor Idaho, nor any other place is known as the "Breyer State". I checked BSU's website for some other possible rationale, but found none. In the absence of any other explanation, then "Breyer State University" can only be intrepreted as "a state university named Breyer". The only reason that I can see for including the word "State" in BSU's name is to mislead people into thinking that it is a "state university", and therefore legitimate.

    It also appears likely that the name of BSU's questionable "accreditation agency", the Central States Consortium of Colleges and Schools, was deliberately chosen to resemble the names of regional accreditation agencies (such as the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools, or the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools).
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member


    I don't know if one can quantify it. But, unlike a recognized and accredited school, a thing like BSU should be striving to develop its own chops. It can't do that with a self-credentialed faculty.

    A school that has already proven itself is much more immune to such criticism.

    Regarding doctorates, "it takes one to make one." But when a school, like BSU or Century, has so many faculty members with doctorates from the home school, it looks more like a mutual admiration society, where they each agree to call the other "doctor."
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Nice catch. It comes from their state nickname, "The Mountain State." But it, too raises eyebrows.

    I think accreditation, which MSU and APUS enjoy, eases this a bit. I don't think either of them are trying to fool anyone into thinking they're legitimate, because they already are. But "Breyer State" looks like it's trying to give itself more gravitas than warranted.
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    So? We know what Levicoff said almost a decade ago. What are you saying now? (Nothing, I think, but go ahead.)
  18. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    The MIGS discussion is water under the bridge; and it was so long ago...

  19. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster



    And is old stuff that happen!

    Still have a lot and plenty of admiration for you despite everything!

    Is all in the past! and lets keep that way! :D
  20. Vinipink

    Vinipink Accounting Monster

    Hey Dave,

    True to that, it is water(dirty) under the bridge!

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