Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Rich Douglas, Jun 8, 2007.
This would never happen in a top tier university.
I can't tell you what that magic cut off is, but I can guarantee that the RA bodies look at and are critical if it is too high for them. I have been a part of RA accreditation program reviews and this topic is a significant factor of discussion and concern.
If a program is unique, the only one of its kind, then I'd expect to see more of it.
Departments often have personalities. They are known for having particular strengths, orientations and approaches. Presumably graduates of those departments share those points of view.
I guess that a lot depends on whether a department wants to further emphasize their existing specialty, or whether they want to broaden themselves in areas where other schools might be currently doing better work.
If most of the faculty in a department graduated from the same school, there's the danger (or the promise, depending on how you look at it) that they all kind of think the same way on professional issues.
If most of a school's faculty come from a school that doesn't have much credibility, that faculty probably isn't going to be very credible either. Unless of course, they succeed in making a name for themselves by scholarly productivity or something.
I had in no way intended it to continue as it had in regards to my personal and proud accomplishment.
I understand that in the majority of those on Degreeinfo, one finds what I have sought to complete a waste of time, effort and expense. However, I do know and understand my limitations along with the countless issues such as certain states displaying that a degree from a voluntary but recommended accreditation would asteem me from making application within a state where my unaccredited degree would be considered to be of illegal measure.
I have no plans of pursuing a position within a state or federal institution much less even seeking a teaching profession, which has made note, I hold a Masters degree from Auburn and that would suffice at least within a standard faculty pay rate.
I have and will continue to state that one must come to seek what he or she is most interested in accomplishing. Will the degree meet his or her current and future needs and will the degree meet one's academic goals and achievements.
I enjoyed both the faculty and the students of which I became involved with throughout the coursework requirements. Many of them have the same aspirations yet were avoiding the high cost of tuition that continues to climb.
I cannot state that my employer recognizes or would offer assistance for my degree as I am self employed, however, those accounts of which I currently have found my personal desire to continue my educational needs to be of value and of course, I learned from the many text books that you will find utilized within other universities.
I seek to take ideas and comments from others as an opportunity to learn and have always enjoyed sharing a difference of opinion as I find it meaningful in that this allows us to learn more about various subjects, interests and above all, ourselves.
I look forward to seeing where Breyer State will direct within the near future and I have hopes that it will be a positive decision for all students who have been enrolled.
Despite backtocali's sig line, Alabama does not "approve" schools, in either the generic or literal sense. It "licenses" them without evaluation.
That's probably realistic. It would be more accurate to say something like "Alabama state-licensed" or "Alabama DPE-authorized".
However, that is not the biggest issue with backtocali's signature line. The line currently reads as follows:
Notice that backtocali claims a state-authorized doctoral degree, without naming the specific school that issued the degree. This seems like a rather striking omission, especially since the name of "Auburn University" is prominently displayed (with links, even) for the other degrees.
If I were reviewing a resume that claimed a degree (particularly an advanced degree) without naming the school that issued it, it would raise a big red flag, and I suspect most other people would feel the same way. It has to be either all or nothing: either provide complete information about the degree, including the school name, or drop the reference to the degree entirely.
backtocali indicates that his degree has Alabama state authorization, but does not mention that it is also "accredited" by CSCCS. This may be a wise move, given that CSCCS is frequently cited as an example of accreditation fraud.
You have invested time, effort, and expense toward earning a qualification that will tend to make your resume look worse (rather than better) and that will tend to provoke ridicule (rather than respect). I respect your right to make that decision -- it's a free country, and it was a legal transaction -- but it does seem like a curious investment.
Thank you for your suggestions.
Okay, one more: spell out what "BSU" means. Dropping it entirely is also a possibility, but I'm not suggesting that. But "BSU" doesn't, in this case, mean "Boise State U."
backtocali's sig now reads as follows:
But the name "BSU" is commonly associated with several legitimate and accredited state universities. Ball State University is probably the best known, but some people might think of Boise State University or Bemidji State University.
So the new sig still doesn't specify the name of the school, but even worse, it now implies an accredited state university. This usage is actually even more misleading, and poses even more risk of embarrassment or liability to backtocali, than the previous one.
Either provide complete information about the degree, including a clear and unambiguous school name, or drop the reference to the degree entirely.
Perhaps I should simply state or list as a DBA via distance learning. After all, this is what I have obtained.
I find it interesting and very telling that you don't simply list it as a DBA from "Breyer State University". In fact, you seem to go to great lengths to avoid doing just that.
I guess that my position on this is that you probably shouldn't list your Breyer State 'doctorate' at all. Most likely, it will discredit you.
Does that mean that it was a waste? Maybe not, if you truly believe that the educational experience was worth it. That's entirely up to you, as long as you aren't asking other people to recognize it.
(It's a little unfortunate that this board is Degreeinfo, not Educationinfo. There's too much emphasis on accumulating hollow titles. But I guess that if 'Duke' isn't available, then 'Doctor' will have to do.)
Perhaps you should look at it like you would library research. Reading books is a wonderful thing. (Libraries are free-universities for those of us who aren't pursuing degrees.) I'm currently reading a book on Greek mathematical philosophy. Very interesting, but not something that I'd boast about. Its effect might be felt though, if I ever have some occassion to make a comment on Greek philosophy.
I've noticed that educated people rarely ask each other for resumes except in the most formal of situations. If you appear well-informed and make intelligent comments, then you will pass without your ever having to wave a doctorate around. If it's obvious that you aren't well informed, then waving a a doctorate around won't accomplish much.
That's how your Breyer State 'doctorate' could serve you, assuming that you really did get something valuable out of it. Not as something to boast about, but as something that might have helped you to become more knowledgeable and more sophisticated.
This is yet another example of the common "time bomb" strategy (I believe the phrase was coined by John Bear). Get credit and recognition by advertising the degree, but avoid the potential embarrassment (or in some states, criminal liability) by concealing the name of the unaccredited school that issued it.
This strategy may work, but only as as long as nobody asks questions. The problem is that advanced degrees, particularly doctoral degrees, tend to attract attention. If you claim a doctoral degree, then at some future time -- maybe next week, maybe next year, maybe in 20 years -- someone is likely to demand a direct answer to the obvious question: where did you get it? And the longer the truth is hidden, the greater the damaging effects of the "time bomb" to your resume and reputation when the facts are revealed.
If backtocali is located in a state that does not restrict the use of unaccredited degrees, then the strategy should be perfectly legal. So I respect backtocali's right to start the clock ticking. But it seems like a curious decision.
Relevancy and honesty are key issues on the CV or resume.
In my opinion, the best way to handle the Breyer State doctoral degree on the resume, if it is relevant to the situation, is to list the full name of the university, the degree, and that it is unaccredited. You could also list any coursework emphases and the title of your doctoral project or dissertation. Be honest about it not being regionally-accredited though; this is critical.
There might be some downside to listing an unaccredited doctorate and characterizing it honestly, but this is not really downside, in my opinion. Consider that it is unlikely that you would want to work for someone who thinks that knowing less is better than knowing more. Your unaccredited doctoral degree might serve as a useful tool for screening out blockheads, a subtle IQ test for employers.
Using the unaccredited doctoral degree as a blockhead screener could be a liability though if you really want to work for dummies, which happens from time to time.
Coincidentally, a "time bomb" from another unaccredited school in Alabama just went off. This one was a doctoral degree from 1999, so it detonated after 8 years.
The real irony is that the candidate in question apparently had perfectly legitimate BS and MS degrees; furthermore, only a BS was necessary for the job. So he was apparently very well qualified on the basis of his accredited degrees alone.
But for whatever reason, the candidate had to put one more degree on his resume: an unaccredited doctorate. And when the truth about it was discovered, none of his other qualifications mattered. The job offer (with an annual salary of $117,000) evaporated.
It happens over and over and over...
But don't we get told by the millists over and over again that if it is legal it's okay for some people? That this is a personal decision and we should just all but out? I guess no one told the people involved with this one, huh?
It is perfectly reasonable for a diploma mill to (a) operate legally, (b) sell degrees, and (c) lead to very devastating things for the purchaser.
He had it coming.
Title of the story:
Doesn't even say mill. Just "unaccredited university." I wonder if his current job required a doctorate. Doesn't look like it but it appears he does like being called Doctor:http://www.collier.k12.fl.us/technology/docs/techplan.pdf
All the information available on the Internet on unaccredited schools\degree mills and he still lists his. Paying attention to Dr. Gollin's pigeons page could have saved him alot of grief!
My blockhead's-eye view is that boasting a degree-mill doctorate is evidence of (1.) dishonesty, (2.) stupidity, (3.) pomposity.
I do respect a few unaccredited programs and would think very highly of their graduates. But that implies that I'm already reasonably well convinced that the schools in question are both valuable and credible.
I don't have that kind of confidence in Breyer.
Generalizing from that by assuming that many employers, colleagues and clients out there are similar dullards suggests that unfamiliar unaccredited degrees may often have credibility defects and that waving them around may not always be in the best interest of the graduate/purchaser.
That's why I suggested keeping the degree quiet and letting any knowledge and sophistication that might have accompanied it do the talking. That way it doesn't really matter what employers, clients and colleagues think/know/believe about it.
Separate names with a comma.