Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by raristud2, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. raristud2

    raristud2 New Member

    "Sen. John McCain has selected Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate in the race for the White House and is expected to announce the choice later today. Palin, 44, now in her first term as governor, is a pioneering figure in Alaska, the first woman and the youngest person to hold the state's
    top political job". <--- For only a year and 9 months? I might have been swayed to vote Republican by a Mccain/Ridge or Mccain/Romney ticket. These sentiments are shared by the blogosphere.

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 29, 2008
  2. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    It's a year and nine months more chief-executive experience than Obama has. I agree that her youth and lack of experience will probably be a vulnerability that the Obama campaign will try to exploit. But exploiting it will require some finesse, given Obama's similar vulnerabilities.

    It's not difficult to perceive what the McCain campaign is thinking and what their strategy was. It was obvious in how they presented their candidate.

    Sarah Palin's a graduate of the (non-Ivy-League) University of Idaho. She and her husband are union members, from working families. Her husband is a Alaska commercial fisherman (a la 'Most Dangerous Catch' I guess, what could be grittier than that?) and North Slope oilfield worker who enjoys racing snow-mobiles. One of their kids is in the Army (and due to be deployed to Iraq in about two weeks) and another has Down's syndrome. Her popularity in the Alaska polls is stratospheric, something like 80% approval. And she performs very well in front of the cameras.

    Pretty clearly the intention is to connect to the suburban and small-town working people, especially with Hillary's disgruntled supporters, who may be kind of put off by Obama and his slick big-city media juggernaut.

    Well... we do know one thing for sure. However the election turns out, we will either have a black President or a female Vice-President come November. It's going to be historic either way.
  3. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    A criticism of the Bush/Cheney team is that there was no VP ready to run for president after eight years. The same will probably be true for a Obama/Biden team. But the McCaine/Palin team raises the possibility of a women president in eight years (or sooner)?
  4. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    It's such an obvious play for Hillary voters. He picks someone who is virtually unknown. Her sole qualification for the sake of the ticket seems to be that she's a woman. Oh yeah, and she's pretty. Does McCain think that will be enough to get a huge piece of the 18 million who voted for Hillary? I can't see it. It sells Hillary's voters short - that is they voted for her only because she's a woman, so they'll vote for someone they don't even know because she too is a woman? Never mind the fact that she's a Republican, and her record is unknown to anyone in the lower 48 - and not to mention that many Hillary voters will probably feel insulted that McCain has thought so little of their power to discern.

    It sure doesn't reflect well on McCain. He picks his running mate solely to salvage a shot at getting elected. Yes that's certainly a piece of the puzzle, and nothing matters if you don't get elected, but it's so ridiculously transparent that I'm sure a lot of voters will be turned off by the decision.

    At least it takes the whole "qualified to be president" argument off the table. McCain should fire whoever advised him on this one, though it might be too late for that. He may have just sealed his doom.
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Okay. I read the announcement this morning and just stopped laughing long enough to type on my keyboard.

    Are they kidding? Why this person? There is NOTHING you can say about Palin that can't be said about tons of other candidates. Amazing.

    I love watching Republican apologists twist themselves into knots trying to justify it.

    The good news is, she may not be governor too much longer and will need a job.

    Republicans should be angry--both with McCain and with themselves. They've destroyed their party for decades. Good riddance.
  6. raristud2

    raristud2 New Member

    Yes. Palin elected as vp would be historic. Regardless of her background, I believe that most Hillary supporters will be turned off by Mccain's pick. The republican convention is the prime opportunity for palin to introduce herself to her target voters. She has an interesting family background. However, her inexperience neutralizes any republican attack against obama's experience.

    Palin's husband works for BP as a production operator. This may work for or against obama if the dems paint this connection as a negative. Mccain picked a vp that can counter obama's youth and vitality. Is palin ready to be president if Mccain ventures to the other dimension? If so, she will need a competent VP and an experienced cabinet. It is now Biden vs Palin. Let the games begin.
  7. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Quite true. Good comments.

  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    A pro-life NRA member is not going to attract Hillary Clinton voters.
  9. cookderosa

    cookderosa Resident Chef

    Well, she isn't the feminist that was a strong portion of Clinton's followers, but did you listen to her tonight? She is VERY likable, I predict she will give the republicans the upper hand- ESPECIALLY since Obama decided to NOT bring on Clinton. Son is in the Army, husband is union, she was PTA, her baby has Downs, she has 5 kids, she's very attractive, and is the quintessential "having it all" woman- a role model. While there are many women who are way too liberal to be swayed in any direction right of far left, many women love her. I will say, as a conservative republican woman, that I was generally opposed to voting for any woman as VP/P (yeah I know, call me June) but I strongly support this ticket.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2008
  10. Tom57

    Tom57 Member

    yeah, exactly. What was McCain thinking? Nevertheless, Republican insiders are admitting the Hillary vote was part of the plan. Incredibly, there are some really pissed off Hillary voters who have said on camera that they will now consider the McCain ticket with Palin. They must be really pissed and ready to cut off their noses to spite their faces. Really strange.
  11. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Hey Tom,

    I think the Hillary voters you are describing will come around. At this point, they are few and far between. The convention tightened up the party, and Obama's speech hit all the right notes. Even the very Conservative commentator Alex Castellanos stated it was one of the best speeches he has seen in his life. That speech energized the party, and took care of rifts the Republicans so badly wanted to see continue. Sorry, no dice!

  12. BDev

    BDev New Member

    I think she is a great pick. I get the impression that some of you don't think she has enough experience to be Vice President but if you check her bio, she has more experience than Obama and he's running for president. She has a conservative history that we can all examine. Conservatives are excited about her and I think it's justified. Isn't it chauvinistic to imply that McCain picked her only to try to woo Hillary's supporters? Wouldn't it be amazing if he picked her because he felt she would be an ideal running mate?

    Will it be as taboo to speak negatively of her? Will her gender be as off limits as Obama's race? Probably not (because she's Republican and pro life). You get hit with the "r" word when you say anything negative about him. I get hit with that word, too (and I'm 'blacker' than he is). lol
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2008
  13. Tylin

    Tylin New Member

    She's done a great job in the state of Alaska and I hope the nation gives her a chance. I will certainly vote for her...again. ;)
  14. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    Not all of them. The thing is, both parties are loose coalitions of diverse people. Voters support candidates for all kinds of reasons.

    Sarah Palin certainly isn't going to attract voters for whom abortion rights is the one litmus-test issue. (I support abortion and it's probably my biggest concern about her.) But she might be attractive to some of the voters who really wanted to see a woman on the ticket and who felt dissed when the Democratic opinion-setters tilted so emphatically against them and towards blacks' rival ambitions. Half the population is female and it would only take small percentage of them to make a big difference.

    But there's more to it than that. Palin's got other qualities that might help her ticket. She comes from solidly middle-class middle-American roots that most people can easily identify with. She's apparently got a history in Alaska state politics as an insurgent who's taken on the entrenched good ol' boys of both parties, Republicans as well as Democrats (one of the things that explains her tremendous in-state popularity, I think) which buttresses McCain's own outsider theme. It's going to be very hard to caricaturize this woman with the usual Republican stereotypes -- a child of privilege, uninterested in the problems of real working Americans, serving the interests of the rich and powerful elites.

    That's where Obama's prominent media and entertainment celebrity support, his almost messianic larger-than-life persona, his Islamic name and his associations with people like Wright, Pfleger and Ayers might make him vulnerable to the opposing stereotype, suggesting that he's a radical beholden to the big-city left-cultural elites.
  15. raristud2

    raristud2 New Member

    Energy stocks may do well in a Mccain/Palin administration. Something to think about from a financial perspective.
  16. raristud2

    raristud2 New Member

    - Her environmental record may concern environmentalists.

    "In 2007, Palin agreed with the Alaska Department of Fish and Game to allow Alaska state biologists to hunt wolves from helicopters as part of a "predator control" program which was allowed under a provision in a 35-year-old federal ban on the practice granting 700 permits to the state of Alaska."

    Palin has strongly promoted oil resource development in Alaska, including opening the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling"

    In May 2008, Palin objected to the decision of Dirk Kempthorne, the Republican United States Secretary of the Interior, to list polar bears as an endangered species. She threatened a lawsuit to stop the listing amid fears that it would hurt oil and gas development in the bears' habitat off Alaska's northern and northwestern coasts. She said the move to list the bears was premature and was not the appropriate management tool for their welfare.[83]

    She has called the global warming theory supported by Kempthrone and most scientists "unreliable", and asserted that human activity has not caused Arctic ice to melt, stating that "I'm not one though who would attribute it [global warming] to being man-made."

    - I admire her ability to fight corruption.

    "Shortly after taking office, Palin rescinded 35 appointments made by Murkowski in the last hours of his administration, including that of his former chief of staff James "Jim" Clark to the Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority.[32][33] Clark later pleaded guilty to conspiring with a defunct oil-field-services company to channel money into Frank Murkowski's re-election campaign"

    "Governor Murkowski appointed Palin Ethics Commissioner of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission,[17] where she served from 2003 to 2004 until resigning in protest over what she called the "lack of ethics" of fellow Alaskan Republican leaders, who ignored her whistleblowing complaints of legal violations and conflicts of interest.[18][3] After she resigned, she exposed the state Republican Party's chairman, Randy Ruedrich, one of her fellow Oil & Gas commissioners, who was accused of doing work for the party on public time, and supplying a lobbyist with a sensitive e-mail.[19] Palin filed formal complaints against both Ruedrich and former Alaska Attorney General Gregg Renkes, who both resigned; Ruedrich paid a record $12,000 fine."

    - However, her decision to fire a commissioner may lead to conflict of interest. That is concerning since she was an activist against corruption and served as an ethics commissioner.

    "On July 11, 2008, Palin dismissed Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan for not adequately filling state trooper vacancies, and because he "did not turn out to be a team player on budgeting issues."[52] She instead offered him a position as executive director of the state Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, which he turned down.[53][54]

    Her power to fire him is not in dispute, but Monegan alleged that his dismissal may have been an abuse of power tied to his reluctance to fire Palin's former brother-in-law, Alaska State Trooper Mike Wooten, who had been involved in a divorce and child custody battle with Palin's sister, Molly McCann.[55] Palin is currently being investigated by an independent investigator hired by the Alaska Legislature[56] to determine whether she abused her power when she fired Monegan."

    - I do respect her views on abortion. She is a solid conservative.

    "Palin is pro-life and a prominent member of Feminists for Life, the largest and most visible pro-life feminist organization"

    - I agree with her stance on certain educational issues.

    "Concerning education, while running for Governor of Alaska she was asked about the teaching of creationism in public school science classes. Palin answered that she thought it was healthy for both creationism and evolution to be taught together; although she clarified the next day that she meant that open debate between the two ideas should not be prohibited if it came up in discussion, but that creationism did not need to be part of the curriculum."

    - However, accusations of pork barrel spending may come into play. Again, issues with conflict of interest. As VP, would she be opposed to the 398 million dollar project. She does not want to be dependent on federal money ( tax payers money ), but she kept it instead of returning it.

    Could I be mistaken

    "Palin initially expressed support for the Gravina Island Bridge project,[21] commonly known outside the state as the "Bridge to Nowhere." However, once it had become a nationwide symbol of wasteful earmark spending and some federal funding was lost, Palin cancelled the bridge because Alaska's congressional delegation was unable to prevent the state of Alaska from having to pay for part of the bridge's construction"

    "Alaska still kept the federal money,[24] but she stated that Alaska should rely less on federal funding.[25]"


    - I agree that she is a great pic for Mccain and I like her family background. However, once the honeymoon period is over for Mccain/Palin, I wonder if the issues above will trickle in.

    As vp and potential president, she could be an ass kicker and not one to mess around with. However, how will she be viewed globally and is she ready to interact with the likes of putin? This question I ask of obama. So please refrain from youtube like foolish gender or party attacks. :D
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2008
  17. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    The more I read about her, the more I'm thinking McCain & his people knew exactly what they were doing when they picked her.

    At the absolute bare minimum, she's easier on the eyes than Joe Biden and his failed hair plugs. :D
  18. Ian Anderson

    Ian Anderson Active Member

    Palin voted to increase taxes on the oil companies using Alaskan oil against state republican oposition.

    If McCain becomes President I expect that he will be forced to increase federal taxes (in fact two of his proposals result in increased taxes - his "health care" plan (I like his plan) and his energy tax. He also said that he is not opposed to an increase in FICA taxes).

    Who ever wins I hope they simplify the tax system (I won't hold my breath though).
  19. truckie270

    truckie270 New Member

    Despite the reaction of the knee-jerk critics, a little research on the subject indicates that this was a calculated move on the part of the McCain camp. Obama cannot criticize her experience without undermining his own vulnerable position in that regard. She has more Executive experience than Obama and she is the number 2 on the GOP ticket. She is a reform Governor with a better record of implementing "change" than the Obama/Biden ticket. I would be willing to bet that Obama is seriously re-considering whether or not he made the best choice with Biden right now.

    Although the intent of capturing Hillary voters may not pan out as expected, the real target of this pick is the undecided, independent voters. The problem with the the strict 2 party system IMO is the tendency for candidates to view voter's preferences as either/or, when in fact the number of moderate independents indicate more issue-based voting practices.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2008
  20. raristud2

    raristud2 New Member

    Biden could withdraw as the vp candidate due to health concerns. :) That will give hillary clinton the opportunity to move in. If obama picks her as vp.

Share This Page