Masters Propio (ENEB, etc)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.

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  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This is the risk with any of the latin american private schools options including Azteca. The school collapses and then just prints diplomas before it is shut down. My guess is that even the case in the US. University of Atlanta once was DETC accredited and turned into a diploma selling operation. I am sure that Doctoral graduates from this school are not happy to know that they hold a doctorate from a defunct school with bad rep.

    San Juan became popular because it was offering English speaking programs but the reality is that the Latin American Market is full of similar schools that come and go.

    I guess that if I am able to land a full time tenure track position with my San Juan degree at a CC or small University, then it wont matter what happens later but it can be a problem if the person needs to employable over the years.

    Again, one might argue that a school like UCN is a better bet but you also have the baggage of the Nicaragua brand that it is not exactly known for a strong education system with no ranked schools in the country.

    All of these options are marginal and you are getting what you pay for, a very fragile degree that it might work for you but it might not.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Funny, Stanislav. You and I must be psychic or something. The same things bother both of us. No lie - Potemkin's name came up in my mental Rolodex when I was thinking about two Costa Rican schools, when I was posting here the other day. San Juan de la Cruz and UNEM. (IIRC it stands for Universidad Nacional de Empresas - National Business University.) Potemkin's name has been around a long time. What, around 300 years? He could fool Catherine the Great but he can't fool us.

    As for those two American gentlemen you mentioned. Both of them have posted here in the old days. Last I heard/saw of them in forums (that I know of ) was around the time of that lawsuit from the University that shall not be named. One of those gentlemen has since been awarded an Ed.D. by that University -and was appointed a Dean there. The other, I read somewhere, is now a Bishop, with a See in the Philippines.
     
  3. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yes, valid points all. What I was trying to convey is that unlike UCN, San Juan looks (to me) like it already is a degree-selling operation, perhaps been one for some time. So for that CC TT position, I'd still avoid San Juan, even if (big if) any NACES member may (may!) still evaluate it as equivalent.
     
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The website of San Juans DBA below, it seems to be operational:

    http://www.universidadsanjuan.ac/diploma-in-business/

    UNEM was authorized by the CRA for tuition tax credit in Canada. I don't know if this is a good sign but at least it passed the Canadian Goverment basic requirements as a University, I couldn't find Azteca, UCN or San Juan in the List:

    https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/about-your-tax-return/tax-return/completing-a-tax-return/deductions-credits-expenses/line-32300-your-tuition-education-textbook-amounts/recognized-educational-institutions-outside-canada/universities-higher-educational-institutions.html

    Another school in the list that offers distance doctoral degrees recognized by the CRA is the University of Peace in CR

    https://www.upeace.org/
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It's an opinion. You have a different one. "False" is a pretty strong claim with nothing to back it up. I'm comfortable with letting my posted opinion stand.
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry - my post timed out. Here's the whole thing:

    There are over 100 Private University campuses in Costa Rica. I think over 50 institutions. List here. https://www.altillo.com/en/universities/universities_costa.asp

    We could spend years on these - who's good, who's bad who's cheap, etc. Will we? I dunno....

    As for UNEM - I made a mistake in the name but I was close - It's Universidad Empresarial de Costa Rica and it means Business University. Here is one comment from the Wiki:

    "The degree programs offered by UNEM are not among those accredited by the Sistema Nacional de Acreditación de la Educación Superior (SINAES),...the National Accreditation Agency of Costa Rica."

    There are also "degree mill" comments and a reference to payment for degrees. Whole thing here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universidad_Empresarial_de_Costa_Rica
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yet you describe one in your example.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    For many years Empresarial rented its degree-granting privileges to an outfit operating from the US, awarding degrees that were not within Empresarial's approved scope. Degrees done in English, paid for in US dollars to an American agent. I don't know if it is still active, but searches for such degrees gather a lot of hits.
     
    Johann likes this.
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Well, I'll let my disagreement with implication that spending 40 grand is "irrelevant" stand. It's incredibly relevant for just about any realistic family budget, as a matter of trite common knowledge.

    In fact, since you expressed your opinion in absolute terms, here's a proof it's false: finances were a big part in my educational decision making. There.
    One more decision point: my wife. Chosen institution: Excelsior College. Could have gone to Florida State, except the only stable income we had was my graduate assistantship of about $10K/yr. In fact, this should not be unfamiliar to you.
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Say what? Topic here is ENEB/Isabel I program. By all accounts, it requires substantial study.
     
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  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Good info. There was, as I'm sure Rich knows, about a 15-page thread on this school on the old forum that is now pretty well shuttered. IIRC it said Empresarial was approved to offer exactly three degrees at the outset - a Bachelor's in Business, one in Accounting and a Master's in Accounting. Those were to be on-ground and NO distance degrees were ever approved. There have been suggestions in that forum and elsewhere that the school has been remote-controlled by foreign owners / operators from places as far flung as Arizona and Poland. Latvia might have been in the mix too - I'm not sure. They must have had the longest printer cable in history! :)

    But if you want a tax credit from CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) I guess you can get one ....
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    "Operational" is a stretchy word. Al it seems is that there's a website. Two, in fact.

    The CRA list has exactly 2 schools in Ukraine. Rather random medical schools. OTOH, there are no institutions from UK. I don't know if the list means anything beyond that someone got their credit for attending these institutions (or maybe they were audited and the credit not disallowed). This is not a criticism of the CRA; for next few weeks I still work there and am bound by the Code of Ethics.
     
  14. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    So, is the National University of Medical Sciences (NUMMS) a Masters Propio (Doctoral Propio) or simply an online school with a registration from a Spanish government Department? I have a feeling it is the latter.

    They have a Florida based office and a Canadian diploma issuing school but their Doctor of Osteopathy is from Spain. I read something that said a Canadian Provincial government decision said a grad could use DO as long as it said John Smith, DO (Spain). This is manual osteopathy and not a US DO (which is equivalent to an MD).

    https://www.numss.com/home.html
     
  15. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Well, the school is not accredited and they are not teaching for an accredited school either. It's junk. Run.

    Having a Florida-based office means nothing. In Canada, Osteopathy (the manual adjustment kind) is not regulated, so while diplomas in the subject are legal they only get by because there is no regulation on the profession yet.
     
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I have no idea what you're implying. That's declarative, not an invitation for further clarification.
     
  17. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Thanks for replying. I know all of that and personally do not like the fact they use DO (one of their US grads with a boatload of unaccredited doctorates uses the DO...which in the US means a medical doctor).

    My question is more is the degree from the Canadian based operation's Spanish "branch" a propio degree Masters or Doctorate under Spanish law...or...simply a registered Spanish educational company?

    "National University of Medical Sciences (NUMSS) is a privately owned online university, based in Madrid, Spain. NUMSS (Spain) is registered as an online university with the Registero Mercantil Central Seccion de Denominociones department of the government of Spain (certification number 16167263)."
     
  18. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Accredited schools in Spain can and do offer propio degrees and they are respected because they are from an accredited school. Unaccredited schools in Spain like this one have no choice but to offer propio degrees and Spaniards know about all of the issues that come with an unaccredited degree.
     
  19. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    A marginal degree also. I guess it can have its use. Again, if it costs me 5K and get back 2K from taxes and it helps me to get what I want, it might be worth something.

    As for alternatives to propio Doctorates, I found the school from Mexico:

    https://universitam.com/acreditacion/

    A virtual school that claims minister of education recognition but it offers "propio" doctorates and post doctorates. Very new school to tell if it will survive. UNEM has been at least in operation for more than 20 years but it has few incidents of diploma mills.

    The school above also seems to be marginal in the sense that has minister of education approval but no ranking and only virtual presence. I don't know the cost but if someone is interested, they can check the link above.
     
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    My guess is that the CRA approves only schools at the request of the tax payer. They probably just check basic requirements such as approval by the minister of education of the country in place. But again, if I'm only looking for a marginal degree, the tax break might be an incentive.
    I personally had a hard time getting a tax credit with a foreign school, the CRA asked me for many signed documents from University officials and at some point I was not able to get more credits as the officials refused to sign due to problems with part time and full time status. The CRA required me to be full time at the time and I was part time.
     

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