Is European University Accredited??

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by meansgood, Jun 21, 2006.

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  1. imnotadoctor

    imnotadoctor New Member

    That doesn't change the status of the university and that what it offers is not of university standard. Why is it not accredited by the swiss bored of education??
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I assume you mean why does it not have Swiss Federation approval. That's easy.
    It's pretty near impossible for a new school -- especially a DL one, to satify Swiss Federation requirements - e.g. at least 100 full-time professors, etc.

    There are GOOD Cantonally-licensed schools and BAD ones. All are "legal" but you may easily find yourself with a degree that has no standing - in Switzerland or abroad.

    The "Good" Cantonally-licensed schools I refer to are mostly business schools with programmatic accreditation, AACSB or ACBSP, AMBA or EQUIS for example. I'm told the American program accreditors insist that a school be either accredited or, if outside the US, have equivalent degree-granting authority in its own country. Quite often, it appears, a Swiss Cantonal license has been construed as sufficient degree-granting authority by programmatic accreditors.

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2012
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I should add - programmatic accreditation of SOME of its programs does NOT of itself make this - or any other Cantonally-approved school a "great" or even "good" school. It does say that those programs have met a certain standard. As you can tell, this particular uni is highly controversial. If I wanted an ACBSP or AACSB-approved program at a Swiss Cantonal school -- there are plenty of others with less controversial reputations.

    Come to think of it, why would I want such a degree at all? I certainly wouldn't save any money...and who wants a degree they might be forever defending?

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2012
  4. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Some additional comments on European University:

    - EU now offers a dual bachelor's degree program with Nichols College, an RA school in Massachusetts. This arrangement is also advertised by Nichols; they explicitly state that students will "receive credits for classes taken at EU back at Nichols". I would say that this adds to EU's credibility, and would be a reasonable argument for regarding EU bachelor's degrees as potentially RA-equivalent.

    - Most EU programs at the Geneva, Montreaux, Munich, and Barcelona campuses are currently accredited by ACBSP, and some Geneva programs are also accredited by IACBE. However, not all EU programs have ACBSP or IACBE accreditation. For example, it doesn't look like their DBA programs are covered.

    - IACBE has asked for some improvements at the Geneva campus, but they appear to be in good standing nonetheless.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2012
  5. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I should add that Nichols is IACBE-accredited, as well as RA.

    EU has also announced a future dual MBA program with the College of Charleston, a public university in South Carolina which is both RA and AACSB. This doesn't seem to have started yet though. According to EU:

     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2012
  6. matt2

    matt2 New Member

    Yes, you are right about ACBSP and IACBE. The CEEMAN IQA accreditation appears to cover all programs including the DBA.
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Maybe it is a reasonable argument... but I think the real litmus test would be: How would a "European University" degree do with a NACES-member credential evaluator, like ECE or WES? Or UK-NARIC for that matter? Anybody know? Any experiences?

    The Dual Degree arrangements they talk about are all well and good -- but it occurs to me I'd rather have one from Nichols College or College of Charleston, without EU. I don't believe Dirk Craen or any other controversial honcho of EU is connected with these two schools -- and they have unassailable RA accreditation. If you can go THERE - why would you want to bother with the uncertainties of an EU degree?

    Question: In this forum, one of Dr. Craen's detractors asked (a bit sarcastically) a while back - "do you know where Dirk Craen got his doctorate?" Well, I don't -- I've Google-ated till my keyboard froze - and couldn't find out. Can anybody tell me where he earned it? I'm really curious...

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2012
  8. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Didn't you see the nice picture of Dirk Craen standing directly between Dr. and Mrs. George Benson?
    Dr. Benson is the President of the College of Charleston.

    It also appears that Dr. Rhonda Mack, Associate Dean at College of Charleston, was a featured speaker at the 2010 EU Commencement, as was Dirk Craen.

    I have no personal knowledge of EU, but they do seem to have legitimate ACSBP and IACBE accreditation, as well as legitimate connections to legitimate US business schools.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2012
  9. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I have to admit that I struck out on this one too.
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    My apologies, CalDog. I guess I erred when I said Dr. Craen wasn't "connected" with Nichols. Obviously, if he's setting up a combined program...duh! What I should have said was - he wasn't faculty or connected in an administrative/staff capacity (as far as I knew).

    There is another connection though. Dr. Craen's daughter, Ann, is a Nichols grad - 2009, I believe.

    I STILL don't know where he earned his Doctorate -- and I tried again. His school still remains too controversial for my liking.

    A quotation from the Wiki:

    Before the ACBSP accreditation process was completed, the institution's accreditation status drew negative attention from international news media and government officials. The Swiss Embassy in Singapore issued information in 2008 stating that the European University lacked educational accreditation in its home jurisdiction of Switzerland, where the Centre of Accreditation and Quality Assurance of the Swiss Universities has responsibility for accreditation.[14] From 1993 to 2007, the European University in Barcelona had authorization from Catalonian authorities to offer programs leading to Bachelor and Master of Business Administration degrees, but this authorization was withdrawn in 2007 due to the institution's lack of official recognition in Switzerland.[15] In August 2009, leading Malaysian newspaper The Star included European University in a list of dubious institutions which were not in recognised accreditation registries.[16]

    Johann
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Whether I like it or not, it appears the relationship between Nichols College and E.U. is very close. Here's a State Senator's website that details it: Sen. Moore welcomes international visitors to the State House

    A partial quote:

    "Dr. Craen’s daughter Ann graduated at the Commencement Ceremony this past weekend from Nichols College. Nichols and European University enjoy a close relationship and students may study for degrees at either institution."

    Uh-huh. If I have my pick, then I'll take Nichols College...

    Johann

    PS - I have read that Dr. Craen's undergrad degree was from his own school - EU. So....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2012
  12. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    Seems like the key words here are: "Before the ACBSP accreditation process was completed".

    Now the ACBSP accreditation process has been completed. What was the result? Most EU programs are ACBSP accredited. Some are also IACBE accredited.

    Let's be fair here. It seems fair to say that were some historical concerns about EU. But it also seems fair to say that most EU programs are currently accredited by one, and sometimes two, completely legitimate and fully recognized US programmatic accreditation agencies.

    You don't have to pick. The two schools have a dual-degree program, so you get both.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2012
  13. Mohammed

    Mohammed New Member

    Yes, it certainly looks like they have moved on from their difficult past and have made an effort toward accreditation and recognition of their degrees.
     
  14. matt2

    matt2 New Member

    Yes, you are right. However, the DBA degree program would be covered by the CEEMAN IQA accreditation.
     
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'll let it be. Maybe they have left their past behind -- they appear to have tried hard, at any rate - and have made good associations. If EU were a low-priced school, I might think differently - but it's not.

    For that amount of money (or less) a person could earn a degree from a school with absolutely bullet-proof accreditation - not simply a Cantonally-licensed one of debatable inherent standing, with the Holy Water of programmatic accred. sprinkled on top, to uplift some of its degrees.

    OK - You pays yer money and takes yer choice -but -especially at these prices - this one's not a great value, as I see it.

    Johann
     
  16. matt2

    matt2 New Member

    CalDog - "Most EU programs at the Geneva, Montreaux, Munich, and Barcelona campuses are currently accredited by ACBSP, and some Geneva programs are also accredited by IACBE. However, not all EU programs have ACBSP or IACBE accreditation. For example, it doesn't look like their DBA programs are covered."
    ____________________________________________________________________________

    Some programs from both the Swiss campuses (Montreux and Geneva) are accredited by IACBE. As for the DBA, I'm guessing this and other programs would be covered by their CEEMAN IQA accreditation.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Just remember - all Swiss Cantonal Schools aren't created equal. There are bottom of the barrel ones, way lower than EU, right up to top prestige names with top rankings and program accreditation out the wazoo, like this one at $88K a year, tuition and fees!

    IMD business school, Switzerland

    Average starting salary of MBA grads from here is something like $130K.

    For a school with MBA tuition at around $19k, I don't think EU is a great value-choice. Any rankings I've seen (a couple in the WIKI) put it right at or near the bottom. Degrees of some of these cantonal schools are not well-accepted in all circumstances. My take: Anyone contemplating a Swiss Cantonally-approved program should MAKE SURE that they can use the intended degree in the circumstances they need to. (I remember another school of this type - SMC. The degrees were not on the usual "state lists," but Texas Higher Ed. outright refused recognition. Germany ranked the degrees as "deficient" despite loads of good ol' American programmatic accred.)

    Oh - and here's what that 88K a year to IMD might get you (and it's pretty good!) The Best International Business Schools - Forbes
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 25, 2012
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    People who have read through this whole thread know that I'm skeptical about EU but I don't mind telling you that I know a few things about Nichols College because it's located not too far from where I live. It is a smallish school located in a smallish town that is located more or less in the middle of nowhere. It has a generally good reputation in terms of quality. It is primarily seen as a business school although they do offer some other programs. I don't know the costs but I'm assuming that they're relatively high. I believe they have a collaborative MBA program with that US Sports Academy (I think I got that name wrong) for a Sports Management degree. To my knowledge there's absolutely nothing wrong with this school unless you want to count the fact that if you live in another part of the country (or even in another part of New England) then you've probably never heard of it. With all that said I have two points to make.

    Considering the reputation of EU, I can understand why they would like to partner with a nice little school like Nichols but what's in it for Nichols? Small schools in the middle of nowhere that have big competition, rising tuition/costs, might like having a feeder school that will send a few dozen European students their way every year. That might help to balance the books.

    Over the course of the past 2-3 years we've seen the dissolution of the University of Wales. This breakup was caused, at least in part, by the discovery that the U of W was involved in various "collaborative relationships" where they were validating the degrees coming from all manner of unsavory entities. It seemed clear that money changed hands as a part of this collaboration. I just wanted to mention this recent set of events because it popped into my mind during this discussion of a credible entity that is apparently in collaboration with a questionable entity.
     
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Glad to know this, Kizmet - and I think your mention of the U. of Wales situation is judicious. It could be interesting to see where this leads over time. My take: An MBA that costs $19,000 should be completely non-problematic. EU degrees are not entirely so - some authorities (e.g. Texas Higher Ed.) still bridle at the lack of institutional accred. of Swiss Cantonally-licensed schools, regardless of ANY programmatic seal-of-approval.

    If you want to earn an MBA with NO problems whatsoever attached, there are plenty of US schools to choose from at similar cost (or less). If you'd prefer to earn one from an overseas school, there have to be at least a couple of dozen good choices for similar money. Here's one I found in about 10 seconds: MBAMBA in UK - Distance Learning Management Courses | University of Leicester UK

    Good school, (as Dr. Rich Douglas can attest) :) plus AMBA programmatic accreditation. Cost $17, 094.53 As for EU's $41,000 Doctorates - don't get me started re: value. ACCSB does not accredit those programs.

    First rule of Business Education - get your money's worth. Sorry, EU!

    Johann
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 27, 2012
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    No - and they don't accredit other programs at EU either. I meant to say ACBSP doesn't accredit EU's Doctoral programs. Sorry.

    Johann
     

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