Is Cambridge International University now Spanish?

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by NorthStar, Apr 12, 2023.

  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    How is it different? In both cases, the schools are properly recognized by their respective national authorities, yet award degrees beyond that recognition. The only material difference I know of is that the Empresarial situation had people outside the university doing the "instruction." What am I missing?
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I've been at this a very long time. There was a time when this stuff had some charm associated with it. That's because the perpetrators had to be a lot more out in the open (because they had to receive mail and payments, and had to send out diplomas). Now, all of these internet diploma mills look alike. But hey, that's just an opinion. YMMV.
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I believe it works like this, Rich:

    Spain: (To fully recognized University) "You're authorized to teach these degrees. You may teach others without our permission, but they will not be recognized by the ministry. (That means restrictions - not for government employment, admission to further study etc.)

    Costa Rica: (To private university, CONESUP accredited, but not SINAES.) "You're authorized to teach these degrees. That's it. "
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I've been at it a while, too, Rich. Not as long as you have, though. I started maybe 2004-5 in another (long gone) forum. I still find it very interesting to read up on schools of all kinds and what the proprietors thereof have to say about themselves.

    Now there's the Internet, people from all walks of life put themselves in the light, to be known for their accomplishments --and the results can be very absorbing indeed. Consider this: ivu (dot) igo(hyphen)gov(dot)org/deric(hyphen)bircham/
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2023
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You can't say this isn't interesting. Because it is. And everyone please note, I never said this was a degree mill.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    She held two: the Walden degree, in Education and another (earned) doctorate, in Linguistics, from The University of Granada, Spain.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    (1) Bircham University says (on their site) that if I quote the site, I must provide attribution: i.e. a link. So here it is.

    (2) If the moderators decide to remove this link in order to circumvent SEO (Search engine optimization) - that's their choice.
    In that case I'm sure I CAN still say -- the site is bircham-dot-net and it's not hard to find the page.

    (3) I have said nothing untoward or derogatory about Prof. Bircham's accomplishments - academic or otherwise. I have linked to the words he wrote, or caused to be written. I said they were interesting, and they are. As a final comment on the subject, I think it is accurate and perfectly respectful to say that Prof. Bircham has always been an original - one of a kind - and remains so.
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I saw In all the decades of discussing Asher, I don't recall anyone mentioning that degree. The original source for the Wikipedia entry--the Chronicle of Higher Education--is behind a paywall, and I don't know if it is mentioned credibly anywhere. (It's mentioned in a number of bios about her, but no discussion; just it being listed.) But perhaps I just missed it.
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's basically what I meant, that titulo propio degrees through Spanish universities are not issued beyond a university's recognition in the way that you're seemingly suggesting.
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't see the material difference. In each case, the schools are awarding degrees beyond their recognized scope. In both situations, this is tolerated by the approving authorities. In both situations, the result is a school that is recognized issuing a degree that is not.

    Where's the relevant difference regarding the degree issued? I'm not arguing here; I'm not seeing how these are different. (Certainly, one distinction is that the Spanish university is conducting the instruction while the Costa Rican school is off-shoring it. But I don't see the difference in the resulting degree.)
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think tolerating means turning a blind eye, in the Costa Rican instance. I believe it goes something like this. "You don't have our permission to award degrees other than the three-four we listed. Period. But as long as you only teach and award these others to extranjeros (foreigners), not costarricenses, we'll take no notice. Now go and make your money.

    My take, again: The difference (for us) in the resulting degree is whatever a foreign credential evaluator says it is. You'll usually get something for a Spanish propio, from a Spain-recognized Uni.. It might be full RA equivalency, or equal to NA or even unaccredited US - or to a Bachelor's, grad certificate or whatever. A complete shut-out is possible, but not all that common -- yet. Just avoid WES.

    The Mexicostaraguan degrees: If it doesn't have.mainstream recognition, RVOE or whatever its country mandates, then if you're lucky -- you'll be in that same situation - a crapshoot. But increasingly, a number of these schools are being put on evaluators' own "no fly" lists and then, you'll get nothing for it - but, as we know, there's always another down-market door or two you can knock on... :)
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2023
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Okay, so the distinctions I've had right all along. The real question is whether or not they add up to a material difference to graduates. I lumped them together because I feel the distinctions are not material. Others might well disagree. Sadly, all of this is a little harder to predict than it should be.
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It may not be easy to express, but the difference seem material to me. Propio degrees are fairly common part of Spanish system. Empresarial scheme feels more like exploiting a loophole. Propio degrees associated with real schools (yes, like ENEB) have an entity backing them up with its reputation; in Empressarial's case, that recognized school may not exist anymore, in any real sense (btw, Universidad Central Nicaragua does exist, at least). Spanish propios have ECTS credit values, assigned by the backing school, seemingly not overly out of whack with the general practice. Here's a speculative question: we know that ENEB MBAs, robo-taught as they may be, have content that generally resemble a generic real MBA. Do you expect the same to be true for Empressarial/CIU?

    Here's another data point: schools offering MBAs in countries where MBAs are not part of the national degree system; we saw these from north mordor, Poland, and Ukraine. They may not be degrees in technical sense and may be better treated according to how they are regulated - continuing education certificates. But they are NOT fraudulent. There is a material difference between Lviv Business School of Ukrainian Catholic University and CIU. More like a gulf, actually.

    Personal perspective: I can see myself earning an MBA from ENEB and putting it on a resume. Maybe disclaimed, maybe in a continuing education section, but it's conceivable. (although, in practice, it would make more sense for me to just use my benefit and earn a degree from my employer).I see no such use for Empressarial. If I see an ENEB degree on someone's resume, it may spart curiosity. Empressarial, especially recent one? Red flag, at least.
    tadj likes this.
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Ummm... I wonder if it's more like a Wisconsin International University Ukraine situation (a group of locals running a real school under international degree mill name). In this case, for a hypothetical Uzbek immigrant with such a degree, shouldn't it actually count for something?

    BTW, the renowned Ukrainian-American Liberal Arts Institute Wisconsin International University in Ukraine (actual full name) successfully survived, changed the name to much better UALA Concordia University Ukraine (ConcordiaUA for short) and seems to be an interesting little private school with all the proper approvals. I really hope it survives the war; just like that weird little medical school ran by Prince Volodymyr von Habsburgh, it seems to depend at least to a degree on foreign students. I bet that population fell to approximately zero, at this time.
  15. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    Agreed that ConcordiaUA is a much better name, and I'm glad that they regularized their situation by getting the proper recognitions and/or accreditation in their home country.

    As to the royal medical school, do we have a thread on that one yet? And, more importantly, can we become doctors purely through distance learning? :p
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I can't find a thread. It's a school with amazingly creative name "International European University". It looks like Franz Vladimir von Habsburg-Lothringen doesn't work there anymore. Link: International European University, Kiev, Ukraine - Study in Ukraine ( . They got involved with one of these Swiss multi-school diploma thingies; that unfortunate thing happened to better schools before. I have never heard of them before stumbling upon the mention on this board. The "campus" is on rather far outskirts of Kyiv, and the school is small. But it does have a proper accreditation and seems to actively recruit in Southeast Asia (may be difficult, or impossible, right now). No, the medical program is not distance learning. Actually, Kyiv has several private schools teaching medicine, even though pretty much all the locals have only heard of the public Bohomoletz National Medical University.

    There is a whole scene of these small private schools there. Back in the day, I even got admitted to another school with amazingly creative name, International University for Science and Technology. Their promises of study abroad programs were the main reason; ultimately, I decided to stick with good ol' Kyiv Poly. I was actually even on IUST's ("MNTU") basketball team. I got there the old fashioned way - nepotism (my dad was the coach. He actually coached the Kyiv Poly team as well, but I was never, ever remotely good enough for that roster). The late Rector was quite a sports enthusiast; the volleyball team they were sponsored was a semi-pro club playing at the highest national level. My then 15-year-old sister was on that team; in her case, thanks to her prodigious talent (she played for Louisville Cardinals right after, before turning 16, and earned All American nod). Her oldest teammate, if I recall correctly, was 39.
    Messdiener likes this.
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    The school - and the Medical School are mentioned here: Post 39 by Johann766 and some more that follow. Mention of Volodymyr Habsburg - von Lothringen etc. No full thread I could find that is devoted to IEU itself.

    There is, of course, EIU - European International University - very similar name, not a similar school - at all. But let's not go there again....
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2023
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I get it. I don't agree with it.

    There are distinctions and differences. Distinctions are assertions; differences are assessments. I agree that there are distinctions between the two, but I don't agree they amount to any real differences. The result is the same: a degree awarded by a recognized school in a field and/or level beyond the approved scope of that school.

    The real question is whether or not one receives the two things expected: an education and a degree that performs like, well, a degree. It's the second one I question in both cases. Both would have to either pass through some sort of foreign education evaluation or evade it. There is no real assurance that one would get a better response with one vs. the other.

    The facts don't seem to be in dispute here. What each person makes of them? YMMV.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Correct. No assurance at all of what you'll get from an individual evaluator. Odds are you have a better shot at getting SOMETHING with a bona-fide propio from a recognized school, in a country which allows titulos propios (e.g. Spain, Mexico.) In Costaragua, your chances are higher of a complete shutout, if the evaluator doesn't like your particular private University. And you also stand a chance that your private university is either granting degrees it has no business granting - but only to foreigners, and /or has been taken over by unscrupulous people from abroad -- and is doing everything it shouldn't, mostly by remote control from Arizona, Latvia or points east.

    It's what the evaluator makes of the Uni - and the degree. And that, as we know, varies wildly. From full RA equivalency to shutout via "no-fly" list.
  20. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    Thank you for the quick and thorough reply! I vaguely recall seeing the name IEU online but had assumed it was merely a spin-off of EIU or at least a similar style of university project. Good to know that it's a proper university, even if small, in Kyiv!

    As to their accreditations (IAAR & NAQA), I'll have to take your word for it, not knowing the first thing about accreditation standards or norms in Ukraine.

    Admittedly, it was nice to see that their English-language site is well-developed and fairly thorough. They have a number of programs, and they seemed geared towards foreign students, as you indicated. I wonder if they have any plans to expand their postgraduate offerings, as they mostly seem focused on business and medicine at that level. Whereas, the (under)graduate level has a few more fields of study: software engineering, languages, tourism, psychology, etc.

    If you'd be willing, it would be interesting to hear about other accredited Ukrainian universities (however small they may be) that offer English-language degree programs (in any field) by distance learning. Would you be up to starting a new thread?

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