Fact Sheets President Trump’s Historic Coronavirus Response Healthcare

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Lerner, Nov 10, 2020.

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  1. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    So I saw that Giuliani, Trump's lawyer, also has covid 19.
    He never socially distanced or wore a mask.

    What I'm wondering is: how is it possible that educated people in an educated nation like the US don't take such a serious virus seriously?

    How is the situation in your region? Do people wear masks regularly where you live (in the States)?
    Do people keep enough distance there?
    Do you yourself believe in masks and social distancing?
    What is your opinion about how the US handles this virus on their own soil?

    I'm curious about American citizens' thoughts in regard to these matters.
     
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Unfortunately, Trump has made mask wearing a political issue here in the USA. Here in San Diego California people are pretty responsible wearing masks. I have a daughter that lives in the central valley of California with a lot more Republicans and mask wearing and social distancing is much more spotty. I think it is pretty much the same around the country.
     
    TeacherBelgium likes this.
  3. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    Here in Germany, there is a positive correlation between the number of new COVID-19-cases and the percentage of right-wing voters. Seems to be similar in the US!
     
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The Arizona legislature has had to shut down because 14 Republicans were exposed to Rudy.
     
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The problem that this is politicized.
    Here small businesses are dying while large ones are a lowed to operate.
    So grocery stores one cant have 20 people in but across the street a large store has hundreds people in and they are allowed to operate.
    So if one compares politics, my understanding the GOP side tries to keep economy going and save people from financial ruin while they take percolation to protect them selves.

    Here also people don't listen and still travel and gather together left or right. Thanks giving over and rise in infections sky rocketing.
     
  6. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    Are covid-deniers mostly a thing you see on the news or do you really meet these people in your neighborhood and so on, in the US?

    Here there are people who say it's just the same as the flue or something futile, but they acknowledge that it exists at least.
    Do you encounter lots of people in the state you live in that do not even believe in the existence of the virus or think that it's staged or something?
    I read lots of posts from US people who followed the '' it's going to disappear on November 4'' line of thinking.
    Have those people finally acknowledged that it's an actual virus or do you encounter people who still do not believe it's real?

    I'm just so surprised that American lawyers and other intellectual people, who have generally had a decent education, can deny something so critical like this virus.
    Where do they think all these deaths come from?
    I don't get how people still don't believe in masks over there.
    It makes me wonder if the denial we see on the news here about America is truly how it is in day to day life over there regarding Covid-19 or if it's exaggerated.
    Are those Covid-19 minimalists a minority or a majority?

    I never expected a developed country with good healthcare to forgo the safety measures taken against such a devastating virus.

    Belgium does horrible in the global rankings. We are one of the most severely affected countries, but still everyone wears a mask and people recognise that wearing a mask at least minimizes the damage.

    Do young people in the US then not realise that by not wearing a mask themselves, they could involuntarily kill their parents or grandparents if they catch the virus?
     
  7. TeacherBelgium

    TeacherBelgium Active Member

    The hospitality sector has been completely shut down here.
    Bars and cafés are forbidden to open until after new year.
    Hairdressers are forbidden to open.

    The controversial weirdness is that prostitutes are allowed to work here.
    It doesn't really make sense.
    Cutting your hair can get you a fine but prostituting yourself can't.

    The rules here are not honest either.
    It's good that there are rules to diminish the potency of this virus but speaking for my country, I think rules should be more logic here.

    It's difficult to explain to people that you can invite people over for Christmas but that only 1 of the guests is allowed to use the toilet.
    We made it in the Washington Post headlines with this absurd measure taken here in Belgium.

    I think every country that has measures against Covid, has to finetune them because often they don't make sense.

    The only country that is clear and transparent about their covid approach and seems to do well is Sweden.
     
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You can identify them by their actions, but it seems rare to actually engage them. I don't because I don't want them blowing the coronavirus all over me like the slobs they are.
     
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Are you kidding? We're Americans. We don't actually care about other people!

    Um....better check their outcomes. They're worse in Sweden than in most of Europe.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    They're real. To my dismay I've seen a bit of this in the libertarian movement, where some people's kneejerk opposition to government-mandated closures has led them to be susceptible to specious arguments supporting that opposition.
     
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The government, local city, County, State, Federal all had months to prepare, train more medical personnel, create additional field hospitals and much more.
    They knew that winter is coming and a wave of COVID10 infections.
    So this way they can retrain jobless personnel, and have them working in assisting positions, building hospitals for higher capacity etc.
    Now they are panicking?

    I think this time around as mentioned, people are not deniers as by now many had someone they know or a relative of someone they know infected, got sick and some died
    but people not following the advise and guidance.
    Million+ traveled for TG holiday.
    A lot of families gathered together to celebrate TG and now 11 days after we see a sharp rise in infections.
    If it takes 14 days on average then we may get bigger numbers in the next days to come.






    .
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    First, it was a national problem. Where was the national response? Oh, yeah, the Trump administration was in charge. Never mind.

    Second, which months are you referring to? Did state and local governments get months that the Trump administration did not?
     
  13. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    If you re read my post I started with government, the local, city, county, state
    again Federal.
    So yes National but also on State, County and City level.
    I didn't hear anything about States proposing any plans to increase capacity, prepare additional field facilities etc. Retraining personnel.
    I think if such came they would get approved by the Federal Gov provide support.
    National is there to support states.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    NO, not "national." That's the point. There's been no coordinated Federal response, no detailed support for states from the Federal government, not even a plan to distribute the vaccine once it was developed.

    Beginning in March, the states begged the president to develop a plan; they needed equipment, staff, and supplies and could not generate them by themselves. (States, for example, cannot engage in deficit spending, while the Federal government can.) Trump, in one of his worst leadership failures, told the states that the Federal government "wasn't a shipping clerk" and would not help them.

    I assume you were around in March, so you must know that.
    But the Federal government DIDN'T support the states. That's the point.

    Where were the purchases of PPE? Ventilators? Funding? Deployment of health care professionals and others from the military and civilian federal forces (as well as the National and Air National Guard)? Nowhere. This failure killed tens of thousands that did not have to die. Their blood is on the president's hands. History will not change that simple fact.
     
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    My understanding funding was there, ventilators as well.
    From what I know Federal government provided everything that was requested.
    Military ship as a hospital etc.
     
  16. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    No the truth was that we were extremely short of ventilators and PPE. The Federal government just made things much worse not better.

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006141

    The states were competing against each other to buy the needed equipment. This should have been a federal function instead of the states bidding against each other and driving the prices way up on needed equipment. Even the Federal government was competing against the states in the resulting bidding wars.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/why-states-and-the-federal-government-are-bidding-on-ppe.html

    Quote:
    Everybody trying to purchase the same things is not an efficient way to do this,” said Casey Tingle, deputy director of the Louisiana Governor’s Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness. During past emergencies like Hurricane Katrina, the state has worked closely with regional officials for the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and relied on the agency to procure supplies. But in an unprecedented situation that impacts not just Louisiana, but the entire country, the roadmap is murkier.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/09/why-states-and-the-federal-government-are-bidding-on-ppe.html

    Quote:
    the federal government was actually making things worse

    https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/apr/01/are-states-bidding-war-over-medical-gear-feds/

    Trump was a total failure in his handling of the pandemic. I believe it is a major factor in him losing the election. As I've previously explained it's why my wife voted Democrat for President for the first time in her life.
     
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Bill,
    Biden will have an opportunity to handle this very soon. And if he does a better job then great, the more lives are saved the better.
    But what you see now is governors trying to cover their failures.

    Trump did everything to support the states and save the economy, peoples livelihood. Its easy to look back and blame.

    https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/he-has-delivered-for-new-york-cuomo-praises-trumps-coronavirus-response/2371465/

    Some leading virologists are being criticized for being quiet about the vaccines.
    The vaccines according to these guys are ineffective.

    And the conspiracy theorists see in this globalists dream new found power of over pollution by governors as part of plan that is coming together.
     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Hold on. If he did "everything" then what is to blame? That makes no sense.

    What DOES make sense is Trump abandoned the fight in March by his own words. His actions (or lack thereof) ensued.

    You're trying to both re-write history and make up things Trump supposedly did. Notice how you're not being at all specific? Because there are no specifics.

    This was a national problem that needed a national solution. Trump bailed on it and blamed others instead.
     
  19. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I can be wrong, the opinions are divisive and politicized.
    I do remember that he thought and I also thought that virus will be defeated by warm weather in coming months, April, May, June etc. By Easter.
    Only I'm not in charge of the nation.
    As someone in charge of the family we followed lock down and all the rules our local, state government required.
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    But the facts are not. You're just ignoring theem.
     

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