Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jan 5, 2017.

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Did Russians successfully manipulate or change American votes?

Poll closed Feb 4, 2017.
  1. Russians hacked into American election-machines and illegally altered votes.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Russians hacked the DNC & exposed immorality or criminality, causing citizens to change their votes

    15.0%
  3. Russians DID psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & media manipulation

    15.0%
  4. Russians did NOT psychologically make citizens change their votes with cyberwarfare & manipulation

    70.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, since you are not a United States citizen, why are you obsessive-compulsive about Americans and their politics?
     
  2. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    What does him not being an American citizen have to do with anything? Is he not allowed to comment on American politics or something? By looking at his signature line, it looks like he earned his PhD in the U.S., among other studies. So I would surmize he spent some time here and knows the culture. Not that he owes you an explanation. Sorry Doc, I know this question wasn't directed at me.

    It's sounds to me like you are trying to deflect Dr. Stanislav
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2017
  3. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Abner, are you interested in Canadian or Mexican politics? Please allow Stanislav to answer for himself.
     
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    So, when would that time be? The problem is that tyranny often encroaches slowly, not quickly and obviously. It's what libertarians call the "frog in the pot" scenario.
     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Stanislav, what is the American tyranny that you, as a Canadian, are not yet ready to fight against with violence?
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    I couldn't tell you the name of the Canadian Prime Minister, never mind pick him/her out of a lineup or tell you what their policy stances are.

    Nor do I really care.
     
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Too bad, because it's hilarious. They picked Justin Trudeau, a deer-in-the-headlights snowboard instructor whose chief qualifications seem to be his boyish good looks and that his father was PM back in the early '80s. Google "Trudeau Eulogies" or "Trudeau Aga Khan scandal".
     
  8. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    No kidding??

    I remember his dad well; Pierre if I recall correctly. He and his bimbo of the month were practically standing headlines for the National Enquirer back in the day.
     
  9. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Are you kidding? Canada is practically defined as "portion of British North America reserved for people not willing to fight tyranny". That's how we still have the Queen. You guys have nothing to fear from us.
     
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    "Trudeau Eulogies" is a shallow "scandal" that's oh so typical in Canadian politics. Aga Khan private island thing is more serious, but sadly in Canada no one cares about stuff like that.

    I have no major problems with the Liberal Party policies, even though they traditionally reek of entitlement you guys accuse the Clinton clan of. I like the gender balanced cabinet; like the new Immigration minister (who is, shockingly, an actual immigrant) and the guy he replaced - much better than the legacy Chris Alexander or political hack Jason Kenney; love the new Foreign Minister (who is the shining star of my own community). Jason the Boy Wonder appears to recognize his limitations and relies on the formidable Liberal machine for guidance. Harper, while apparently sharper, was a Bush-lite wannabe dictator who ran most things by himself. BTW, we accepted twice the number of refugees from Syria than the much bigger US; so far all "terrorists" here are radicalized local losers rather than refugees.

    I'm torn about the Provincial side of things. Ontario Liberal party ruled for too long and are the Torture of the Thousand Scandals, while Conservatives have this neocon feel. I still detest the previous leader Tim Hudak's "affirmative action for foreign guest workers" comment; attempting to fan anti-immigrant sentiment for political profit is a huge problem for me.

    In short, a nation that elected a reality TV villain has no business making fun of our Hello Magazine cover model of a PM. Sadly, because the last thing we need is to feed the Canadian smugness. I read the article in Star on how Trump phenomenon is impossible in Canada because people are so happy and generous; I think this is baloney. It is harder for a Trump type to become PM, but only because we do not have direct elections to the post but rather the Westminster system. Not much of a reason to be smug.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2017
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    And yet, Pierre was an extremely influential PM who achieved a lot, not least giving us the Charter of Rights and keeping the nation together in the face of Quebec separatism. Also, it's not like the Canadians invented the womanizer politician. In contrast, Justin, for all his topless photobombs and stuff, is a family man. BTW attempts to attack him as "just not ready" and for his surfer dude image backfired badly during last elections, for Cons and NDP alike.

    To tell the truth, I understand why you do not care much about Canadian elections. Frankly, we're small potatoes compared to the USA.
     
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I'll tell you if you reveal the source of your qualification in Psychology or Psychiatry that enables your distance diagnosis.

    In general, American politics is very relevant for a lot of people over the world, for reasons too obvious to state. Besides, I do care deeply about the country and my many friends south of the border, and actually like US ethos better than Canadian one. For me, Canada is "peace and good government" while America is "liberty and justice", at least in aspiration. Both admirable, but I like "liberty and justice" better.
     
  13. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    You are right not to care, but it's socially to the left of most Democrats, environmentalist (but apparently not anti-oil, to the disappointment of many eco warriors), pro-trade. Far from being transformational, this is stock big-L Liberal platform. Libs run the country for most of its history, yet somehow no commie nightmare occurred. Oh yeah - he promised to legalize pot, but is dragging his feet so far. As you may know, single-payer medicine and gay marriage are not so much political positions as national sacred cows by now; Conservatives do not even attempt to discuss these. Liberal Party is Canadian political centre - there's the New Democratic Party to the left and separatist Bloc Qebecois that's also quite left. Oh, and Trudeau gradually increased immigration and no one noticed. Then again, so did Conservatives (dog whistle immigrant bashing that I'll long hold against them notwithstanding).
     
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    ...oh, one more thing: it's not just US politics; it's also Russia. You may guess how I feel about that rabid mafia state.
     
  15. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    My point was that there are many websites out there trying to recruit and organize rioters to disrupt Trump's inauguration.

    It's "government". I don't recall any "right wing militia" members disrupting Obama's campaign events, his inaugural celebrations or promising to make America ungovernable during his presidency.

    It isn't surprising at all. It's how the far-left operates, seemingly almost with impunity these days. It starts with high-toned talk from professors and pundits about "civility" (as when the 'Tea Party' was attacked for its supposed incivility and Trump's rhetoric is criticized as unpresidential) and it ends with riots, arson and looting (as with the 'occupy' riots and the 'black lives matter' riots) when suddenly talk of civility is nowhere to be found and everyone is supposed to be attentive to the "root causes" for the "rage".

    My point is merely that particular wheel is once again turning as we speak.

    Citizens need to always be vigilant in defense of their liberty.

    I hope that's true. I have a bad feeling about this though. There's been so much hysterical over-the-top rhetoric already by our supposedly reasonable opinion-leaders in academia and in the media about "fascism" and "tyranny" that it might be impossible to put the genie back in the bottle. There are people out there who take the political rhetoric literally and believe it.
     
  16. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Source:
    Exclusive: Trump Operative Roger Stone Survives Assassination Attempt » Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
     
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Oh sure, until you all sail up the Chesapeake and set the White House on fire, like last time. :wink:

    Trudeau may be an easy target, but that doesn't mean I was a fan of Harper.

    Interesting, I'd have figured you for NDP, potentially, especially since they seem to have gotten more mainstream. But that might just be because even "normal" Canadians seem pretty left wing to me.

    Either way there's no reason you shouldn't have an opinion about U.S. politics. Everyone else on Earth seems to, and given the geography, history, and proximity I'd think Canadians would have more cause than most to keep an eye pointed at the U.S.
     
  18. TomE

    TomE New Member

    Turns out its a hoax.

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=371&v=VZl37py_rOQ[/video]
     
  19. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    You realize that the credibility of Roger Stone (a Nixon operative and proud dirty trickster, later lobbyist with firm Black, Manafort, Stone and Kelly) is less than negligible? Same is true of Alex Jones and Infowars. Oh sure, CNN is fake news but Infotrolls we supposed to believe. Also, lethal dose of Polonium is just 50 nanograms, and in Litvinenko case they only identified the possible substance on his death bed thanks to a nuclear scientist who recognized its energy signature. Sorry, but Stone clearly lies here.
     
  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I informed you thusly (that's Sheldon Cooper for "I told you so").
     

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