DETC and RA

Re: portb71

You'd think that when you logged onto this forum you'd want to take a break from that. Go figure.

 

I cannot argue with this post Stan.

 

Take a pill Gus.

Not sure what you're talking about. My guess is that it ain't going to stop anytime soon.

Paranoia accompanied by delusions of grandeur. Hold the pill - lithium drip.

 

Fine, and correct, but that is not a comparable scenario. Florida State University may have a very respected PHD program that will allow you to attain the highest levels of tenure at most Universities. It depends on the program.

PhD's and MBAs are very different animals. PhD's are academic degrees.

 

Thank you .
Regardless of specifics, though, main theme remains. You seize one opportunity, you lose others: this is what called choice.

 

Do you see yourself as Morpheus or just a regular street pusher?

My guess is that you post so much drivel that you forget what you've posted or to which posts you are responding.

Reread the posts paying attention to the quotes. I mentioned that you had a greater number of posts that I do in significantly shorter period. You then said that if I had an alma mater to discuss perhaps I would be more productive. I asked you if you really felt the disparity in the number of our posts was due to you discussing your alma mater. You responded that you haven’t discussed your alma mater hardly at all. Therefore, my point was that your original statement was not only false, but was simply another attempt at harassment. Got it?

You aint gonna hook me on your shit.

 

Dennis you really have him reaching now.

 

Yes you did, and a very good one too.

 

You made an effective argument for DETC, but you're also making the argument that it doesn't really matter WHERE you get you MBA at all in such a scenario since a ranked MBA does not matter.

I guess it's my turn to ask questions.

Given the statement you are agreeing with, why would anyone seriously argue one program (let's say Phoenix or what have you MBA) is any better than any other (Joe Blows MBA Program) based on some obscure accredidation as has been done on this thread? Is one even any better than the other? If so, what metric do YOU use to determine which is better if it isn't job opportunities, ranking or network?

Thanks for setting me straight.

 

Actually, it have been arguedthat Phoenix MBA is not any better that "better" DETC schools like Aspen - both are accredited, lack reputation and will "just do" in many situations. There are scenarios, hovewer, when the degree MUST be RA - say, CPA license, community college teaching, UoPx teaching or admission to certain PhD program. This is what is meant by "utility" on this forum. There is quite limited but highly valuable class of degree uses, though, where only "top 10" or "top 20" MBA degree will fit the bill - you gave us examples of that. This means that the "utility" of such a degree is higher. "Top" school > AACSB accredited > RA only >DETC (and other nationals).
Again, top schools have higher "utility". This just doesn't make all the other ones worthless.

 

Thanks Stan. I actually learned something today. I never thought about the CPA or other licensing angle.

I stand corrected on accredidation. Thanks for cputting forth a concise argument.

 

Re: Re: portb71

The tuition for Duke is obscenely expensive, and there are so few slots available that the great majority of applicants will be rejected for lack of space. What shall these people (rejected applicants) do? I've asked you this more than once, and you have yet to answer.

You really can't seem to grasp the concept that the target audience of this website (and in fact most of the participants) doesn't include people looking for a "top 25" MBA degree. As I stated before, the overwhelming majority are looking for a legitimately accredited degree program that can be earned through DL methods.

If someone needs, say, a RA MBA, and Amberton University fits their needs, or they need a AACSB MBA and Colorado State fits their needs, should they really worry about not having a prestige degree?

In my case, I applied to several graduate schools, and even though I was accepted to a more "prestigious" school (Boston University), I ended up enrolling at UMass-Lowell. The #1 reason was cost, as all tuition was waived because I'm a wartime Veteran (Gulf War I). I did some hard thinking and realized that the differences between UML and BU were not worth the thousands of dollars difference I would have had to pay.

 

In my view its not a question of quality between DETC and RA, but a question of utility. Who can say whether a student graduates with a better education from Harvard than, say, Cal. State Dominguez Hills? Regardless, no one would argue that the utility of the two degrees are equal.

While I feel there is a need for DETC, I don't think it is as well excepted (RA graduate admissions, for instance).

The question, therefore, is do I as a student spend my money and time on a college that may give me limited utility, when I can take advantage of the numerous RA programs available.

On the other hand, education is changing and new innovations must have time to grow. I'm at a point in my life that I prefer to take options with less problems.

 

Do the "top MBA programs" teach arrogance, or is it a prerequisite?

 

I believe that it is taught but if you have sufficient life experience you may be allowed to "test out" of this requirement.
Jack

 

There also are some here that could get a Phd from portfolio assessment.

 

ZZZzzzZz

lolz... well, in any case, let me add my two cents worth
=========

I finally managed to read this thread in its ENTIRITY today and I must say most people have been very clear on their stance regarding the "comparison" between RA and DETC... I will try to outline the insight I have gained in regard to the academic-unitily and educational-value of DETC accredited degrees:

1) I feel that it is true that several RA institutions do not allow transfer of credits (or give admission) to students who only have a DETC accredited program in hand. Some would also suggest, it is an understatement. But I do offer another outlook (and this is an opinion... not a fact by any means): 1/3 of the students from DETC schools who applied to RA schools for further studies did not get admission. No one has done any study to determine whether their grades were good or not... no one has also made any assessment on what grounds they were rejected. It is true that many students in the mentioned ratio must not have had a positive experience and must have been "bashed-around" by the RA admissions committee, but it need not be that these students had top-notch grades... (I am open to a counter argument if someone wishes to reopen the dialogue on this thread).

2) As for finding out the educational value of DETC degrees, I can state that I have been a student of a Brick-and-Mortar school for six years now. The school, which I have been a student of, can easily be compared to some of the mid to high tier RA schools in the states. I am now starting out my studies at a DETC school, but will most definitely sit in on the MBA course lectures and discussions at my prior school as well (along with my studies at Aspen). This is important for me to have an accurate assessment as to whether the two educational standards are comparable (which I am confident they are)... I will let you all know of my evaluation in 5 to 6 months.

3) Neither DETC nor RA-DL universities are good choices for fresh highschool graduates. It is important for me to point out that studies at brick-and-mortar institutions are also extremely important for building the necessary background in higher education. In my opinion, a fresh highschool graduate lacks the maturity, self-motivation and time-management skills to take on the tremendous responsibility of distance education. Getting a bachelors degree from a DETC or an RA-DL University (unless in extremely rare situations) after graduating from highschool would not be a very sensible thing to do... So clearly, RA (B-and-M) is a better choice here in my opinion. Moreso, what percentage of students in North America go for a masters/PhD or second bachelors anyway?

4) On the other hand, for someone who already has a bachelors degree, is quite established, and wishes to broaden his/her horizons by getting a second bachelors, masters, or even a PhD for instance, would definitely be a good idea. In my case, when I was doing my M.A.Sc., I had to do 4 graduate courses in 8 months and the thesis in subsequent 16 months. Although, the lectures by my profs were provided in conference rooms, never once did I feel that I needed to be present there since most of the work was based on hands-on applications and understanding of the theory of the material (something which can only be done on a personal level). Also, the thesis I had to write was by independant study. Most of my discussions with my prof, about the thesis, were through email... and I am sure I am not the only one who experienced this. I spent most of my time, at a library or at home on my computer running simulations (and thats an engineering program... though I know that many science and engineering students have to go to labs for experimentation, what about people who pursue M.A, M.ed. or even M.B.A.??) The only time I had to be present in school, was when I had to go for my TA session for leading a tutorial or helping out undergrads. So, clearly, if I were not a teaching assistant, I would be doing something a distance learner does anyway... In this case, wouldn't I go for something that were cheaper? Wouldn't a DETC school be a better choice than an RA school since it depends on ME as to what I gain from my studies? I would have access to all the IEEE journals and research by various leading figures via internet (which is the norm at universities these days to begin with)... In addition, how many people go for a research based masters (M.A.Sc.) compared to course based masters (M.Eng.)? In my school, we had a choice for both... people going for the M.Eng. would not easily be admitted to a PhD program (sound familiar?) while those with an M.A.Sc. could, because of their background in research.

5) Opportunity cost... this is something very personal and is to be done by the very person who wishes to pursue the DL degree. Should I go for the name? Should I go for the Academic reputation? Should I try to save money? What else could I be doing rather than getting a degree from a DL school? Would it even really matter if I just got an RA accredited degree if I already have a degree or two from before (or not)... These are highly open-ended questions and, I think, unique for every prospective distance learner.

My Conclusion:

I am not an authority/expert in distance learning... in fact, I have not even begun my distance ed courses yet (the mayhem starts in January) but one thing I do know, is that DL is not for fresh highschool grads... yet is an essential tool for those who wish to pursue graduate studies in order to get to that higher state of understanding. A brick-and-mortar school is readily available and can serve the purpose of graduate studies, but in my opinion, the relative cost is just too high compared to some DL programs (DETC or RA), and it is a unique decision of the person deciding his/her very own future: not for someone else to comment on that RA school would be better than NA school, since every person's situation is different and not stereotypical. IMHO, making judgements like what I saw by a few people on the thread can be compared to an "end-of-pipe" solution: This is more accepted so go for it and don't go for anything else. Being realistic is one thing but making it black-and-white is another.

Overall, a GREAT discussion through the entire thread!!! Very interesting and definitely insightful!

 

Thoughts

As I read the thread in this section I think of the time I spent as a young Marine toting a rifle in the jungle and counting time until I could get out and use my GI Bill. DETC accredits MCI and other military DL opportunities. These are often the only opportunities that many servicemen and women will ever get to expand their education and knowledge. The internet was still adream in DARPA's eyes. I have attended UW-Madison, finished my BA at Auburn. (RA, at least until SACS finishes with Auburn) I have also completed a MBA-PM from Columbia Southern University(about 20 years later)(DETC). I could have attended most any school, but the fact that CSU has affiliations with some older institutions and is self-paced convinced me. I found that the effort I put out in either my BA or my MBA resulted in appropriate grades. Out of concern for the quality of education I asked several associates, one with an Ed-D, and the other with a PHD to evaluate my work. They actually were kinder on grading than a couple of the professors at CSU.

In my case the decision to go with CSU was more time related. I completed the MBA in 8 months because I was motivated. No credit by exam, clep, or otherwise.

I am going to work on a second masters with Fla Tech.

I think that folks have forgotten the reason for education is to acquire knowledge and that while utility is an issue, finances, personal capabilities, and access must factor into any decision to move forward with formal education. By continually berating DETC schools we may be dissuading an individual from continuing their education in a program only available via a DETC school, the choice being DETC or non at all. As proponents of this forum I hope that this point is made from time to time.

I personally believe any education is a good thing and as a hiring official would be more concerned with the lack of contunued self improvement than whether it was RA or DETC. So long as it meets federal guidelines.

Thanks for the forum space.

Kevin

 

When evaluating a candidate, employers are looking for productivity and the potential for increasing revenues (either directly or indirectly). I am sure there are some co's (of the 5 million corporations in the U.S.) that have a policy that reads RA is a minimum, however I doubt it amounts to even 1%. And of those, I suspect they were written before DL and DETC became as common as they are. The largest Fortune 500 companies will not dismiss a candidate with a degree from a DETC accredited school if the candidate is otherwise qualified. There are just too many other factors to consider in determining the corporate value of that individual. Corporations are more concerned with what you've done since you graduated rather than where you graduated from (even a rookie should have some intern experience.) Academia is another matter; there the stock in trade is your alma mater, the more prestigious the better.

 

Yeah I couldn't agree more Rod! I remember one of my profs Dr. David Capson once saying: "What you students learn at a university is how to learn" ... So work experience is quite as important in the long run, than say, which school one graduated from (there are limits to this argument of course, like totally depending on an unaccredited school or degree mill with work experience... that's the other side of the argument and a strong one at that).