DETC and RA

That Gus is once again Gus is trying to puff himself up. Gus, you do not have to prove to us you are great it is that inner man that needs to know that. The boasting, and bragging on yourself constantly is obviously not being heard by the inner man. Try this:
Go stand in front of the mirror, and say to yourself I am good, I am talented, and I am worthy. Keep doing this until you believe it. Whenever you believe it scream the famous quote by the Rev. Jackson "I AM SOMEBODY". If that does not work let me know, and I will come up with something else.

Your anonymous troll, and Bunkie
Scott

 

Perhaps if you had an alma mater to discuss, you would be more productive.

Some day?

 

Correction: Three.

 

I once characterized you as a remora, Dennis. It’s good to know the description is still apt.

You have posted almost 500 times more than me in a lot shorter period. Are you attributing this to the many times you have the discussed the institution from which you earned your undergraduate degree? Funny, I don’t recall it being discussed all that much.

One of the most useful tools of this forum is the search button under a member’s post. Clicking on it will open a new window with links to every message the member has posted in chronological order.

 

That's fine but you're not disagreeing with my point, but rather a point I never made. I never said someone with a "less reputed" MBA can't be successful. Please reread the post.

 

Who is going to pick-up the $100,000 tab for attending Duke? If someone simply needs a RA MBA degree, it would make far more sense to spend $8,000 at Amberton University. If they need an AACSB MBA, $30,000 at Colorado State is much more reasonable.

I'm sure we all wish that we graduated from Harvard, but that's impossible. I joined the US Army after high school, and had to go to work full-time when I got out. Rent, utilities, and food took precedence over college at the time. And, I guarantee you that I'm a better person because I didn't go to a prestige college at age 18 on daddy's dime.

 

I agree. I think the higher end has more to do with bragging rights and club membership than education. It's all about the money... if you cough it up either personally or from corporate funds or are from a family where that's spare change then you have bought your membership in the club and have the right to be recognized by others who hold that to be valuable.

 

Well let's see. The top 25 schools in the nation on average cost over $150,000 in opportunity costs.

And yet each and every one of them is full of students willing to take loans for more than some houses cost in the midwest.

Some people are willing to invest in themselves. And guess what? Most will make back their investment within 6 to 7 years.

To me this is an illogical statement. Except for government workers, who "just needs an MBA"?

Why even bother? I can understand spending 100,000-150,000 to attend Wharton or Fuqua but 30,000 to attend CSU?

If you are a successful businessman with an idea, why go to B School at all? Sam Walton didn't even finish HS.

People attend Business Schools so that they can develop networks and relationships. You'd be surprised what they're worth in some schools.

What does your undergraduate degree have to do with anything? There are plenty of people at top tier MBA programs who went to fairly pedestrian undergraduate schools. I went to a non-prestigious undergraduate school too.

Yes the reasons for obtaining an MBA vary. And If you're just learning about business for the first time, I guess any program will do.

But you get what you pay for in terms of lost or gained opportunity.

 

Wow, that sounded bitter from my perspective. Most people at Harvard and Wharton have loans or scholarships. They can be internationals, americans, rich, poor, in business, in the Peace Corps.

You might want to look at who is actually in the entering class. There is a great deal of competition to get into Wharton. Average GMAT scores of 720 and "valuable" work experience of 5-6 years.

You can't just buy a GMAT score.

 

Okay, let's forget about cost for a second.

Assuming these "top 25" schools each admit 1,000 students for each class (very generous I know, but assume it for the sake of the discussion). That's 25,000 students who will be accepted. What about the hundreds of thousands who aren't accepted? In your world, do they hang it up and go work at McDonald's?

How about someone who is trying to move up into a management position where the job specifies a graduate degree? I casually scan want ads and I've seen that many times. You work in the business world and you haven't?

I estimated the cost of CSU, but that's the going rate for a DL AACSB degree. Besides the degree itself, you're also paying for the convenience of DL. The same reason why you pay more for bread at a 7-Eleven than you do at a supermarket.

And Bill Gates was expelled from college. So what? For every Sam Walton and Bill Gates, there are an untold amount of derelicts who spend their lives in jail or in minimum-wage jobs. In 15 years, I can count on one hand the number of MBA's that I've arrested.

If you haven't figured out that there is a direct correlation between education and success (and not just prestige education), I don't know what else to tell you.

 

BA and BComm from U of Alberta, 30,000 plus students and going strong. But, alas, no distance programs so no reason to discuss here.

In Canadian ratings, it usually places in the top half-dozen.

 

This is typical "top 10 or nothing" MBA menthality.
True, "ordinary" MBA doesn't open doors top degree will. But those doors are not the only ones around. Beleive it or not, people become sucessful even with say MA in Philosophy or Classics from schools you've never heard about - although their success is not the same one top MBA enjoy. Tell me, why, in your opinion, people even enroll in pedestrian MBA - is it because they all do not know what they are doing? I highly doubt that.

 

Hello Bruce. Thanks for the Reply. Let me reiterate that most of what I write here is opinion based on personal experience that may differ with yours:

See, the quality of the MBA program has a lot to do with its ability to place you through its network and alumni connections with solid employers. And to provide you with something special that you take with you through your entire professional life.

I urge you to go to www.businessweek.com and click on the B-Schools forum.

You'll get a sense of the thinking of fellow MBA's one is competing with. It's a dog eat dog world out there if you want to succeed the traditional way.

If you don't get into a top 10 MBA program, it is probably true you'll never be an investement Banker at Goldman Sachs nor a Consultant at Boston Consulting Group. But it would not be true to say you won't be successful. Hell you might be more successful than a Wharton grad for a variety of other reasons not related to the degree. Or because are free to think outside the box of b school orthodoxy.

Success depends on a lot of factors, but a top tier MBA can give you a leg up, and in many cases, a low tier MBA can actually PRECLUDE you from doing certain things. Your other success factors become more important.

That is just a fact of life. I didn't create the fascistic old boys and girls club, I'm just telling you how it is.

Well frankly, most of the top jobs are never advertised in your local paper, I have to break it to you.

When was the last time HP advertised a typical consulting Job in the Paper? Or MicroSoft advertise a typical MBA level job? Short of administrative back-office positions, most of the talent comes from referals, connections, networking and BSchool core recruiting stops.

But even local management jobs (ie typical managerial jobs that pay 80,000-120,000 and are in the paper) that mention MBA often say not only MBA, but TOP MBA. I would say almost 40% of adds specifying MBA have this type of a disclaimer. And thse are just your run of the mill cube factories.

Truthfully, most jobs of this kind do not mention the need of an MBA or Grad Degree of any kind in my opinion, though some might say it "is a plus".

I'm not arguing the validity of DL vs. Traditional. I am arguing the name on the degree regardless of delivery format.

It only seems the argument is framed as DL vs. Trad. because so few top tier MBA programs offer DL. But some do.

So do you think it makes sense to pay 30,000 for a DL MBA program that does not have an established career placement office over, say, $30,000 for an DL MBA program from one that does?

There is a reason Duke costs 100,000. And it isn't only that you're getting to join a club, although that is a big part of it.

Not a direct answer, but let's just say I for one do not watch the Jerry Springer show and say to myself:

"Wow! I guess I really am somebody. Sure I have a medocre job where I push paper around all day, but I'm honest, clean and pay taxes. Look at these poor saps....Maybe I'm not so mediocre after all".

Most who apply to the top MBA programs are not content with mediocrity either. I am not insinuating that you or anyone on this forum is. I am simply saying that by and large, MBA students in the top echelons of schools have done their research, realize the MBA is more about connections and prestige than it is about learning the art of management "science", and that like a tough business deal, realize it is one tool in their climb for success and an important "entrance pass" into some firms and industries that are, to this day, highly selective in who they will even interview.

An MBA, is not an academic degree like an MA or PhD. Its a forum for networking, for better or worse. And the right MBA can help you complement your personal success factors or the wrong MBA can HINDER your personal success factors.

There is a price tag associated with the former. And you better have some excellent academic and work experience and interviewing skills to gain admission.

 

100% agreement from me.

I don't know. Why do people live in Patterson, New Jersey knowing what they know? [Sorry if you're from Patterson]

Well, some people don't know. But others do and are happy.

This is a meaningless question -- most of the programs you refer to are open enrollment. This means anyone can be an MBA student at most unranked programs in the country. So you'd have to construct a questionairre and disperse it to a sample of people that is quite diverse with quite a diverse set of goals.

 

portb71

You still here?

Perhaps you misunderstand that almost all of the people here would not be attending any school were it not for distance education.

Most of us do not have the option of attending such prestigious? schools as the U of Maryland. Wish I had heard of it before.

I have to get up every day and shovel poo for about 10 hours for 6 days a week, sometimes 7.

Sure we would all like to go to Harvard but it isn't in the cards. The average age here has to be at least 40. Classroom for me - never.

 

YES!!! They DO have a diverse set of goals! See, most of what you say is absolutely correct - assuming everyone share your goals, your viewpoint and your position on what an MBA is for. Many people do, and some of them compete for those coveted slots in the top programs every year. But many do not. People are free to choose their goals and ways to achieve them. For some an MBA may indeed be just an academic degree, an opportunity to acquire new knowledge and skills.
Did I just give pro-DETC argument?

 

Therefore, your assertion that if I were to discuss my alma maters the number of my posts would more approximate yours is patently false. You had no basis to make that averment except as a (not so) veiled attempt at harassment.

 

Re: portb71

Duke's MBA program is 100% Distance Education. That was the point.

Who said Maryland was prestigious? Compared to what? U of Iowa? I may have said it is very respected in a number of fields to make a point about something else, but I never elevated it to "prestigious". It isn't.

I'm sorry to hear that. We all have problems. I have a tough job too that doesn't pay well. I have a tough time making my bills every month in addition.

The average age of the Duke On Line MBA program is well over 30 with plenty of 40+ year olds in class. Some employers will pay for the tuition bill.

 

I am currently enrolled in RA PhD program (FSU). If academic gods are merciful and I'll get the degree, it will PRECLUDE me from enrolling in MIT PhD program (probably other Ivy-class schools as well). Do I care? Not really.
Every choice we made gives us some new opportunities but takes away other ones.

 

I agree. I could not continue my education without having the option to enroll in a distance program. I work 10-12 hours a day and have family responsibilities.

No Harvard for me either.