DBA vs. PhD and more...

You've made some excellent points. I think the issue is not whether there is a desire to enter an AACSB doctoral program, but availability of such programs in terms of modality. The on-campus modality offers some advantages in terms of socialization (i.e., face-to-face communication is very high bandwidth) but the desire has been to restrict the number of doctoral students in the traditional programs. Resources are one reason. Modality is another reason. Perhaps fear of change is another. However, the steadily increasing demand for undergraduate education and doctorally-prepared faculty to teach the undergraduates continues.

Dave

 

Re: AACSB not an option...

6 years part time is about the time that any "serious" PhD would take. Think about it, you are going to compete with PhDs that spent 5 years full time on average.

To answer your question, imagine you are in the hiring committe and an applicant comes with a 3 year online part time PhD from a no name school while you have in your table applicants from traditional B&M schools that spent 5 years to complete their degree. Who do you think is going to get the job?

I still think that an AACSB accredited PhD done part time via DL from an Australia or UK University might be seen less than a traditional 5 year program done at an American University but I feel that you still might have a chance or at least be able to compete at some level but the "illusion" that a 3 year part time program at a online school is going to give you a tenure track position is just that, an illusion.

 

Re: Re: AACSB not an option...

I agree with this statement 100%. It won't take long for a hiring committee to see that your "online" doctorate took 3 years of part-time study, which most would equate with 1.5 years full-time study.

Real doctorates cannot be completed in 1.5 years full-time. My literature review itself took 2 years!

I personally know PhD Candidates that are on their fifth (and final) year of full-time study. These people have been living out of their university offices for five years....

If I told them that someone could get a doctorate in 3 years while maintaining a full-time job and family they would look at me like I just ate their cat.

DL is good. External research is good. But let's not delude ourselves.

 

Re: Re: Re: AACSB not an option...

Maybe or maybe not; it depends on the discipline and the topic chosen. I can think of three extremely bright fellows I've known who completed their entire traditional doctoral programs in three years of full time effort including teaching two or three courses per semester. Two were in chemistry and the other was in business administration. The elapsed time to complete the dissertation after the coursework/comps probably is filled with bouts of full time employment or greater as any TA will tell you.

Hiring committees will have to become a little more sophisticated than looking at the name of the school and the number of units completed; the research will have to be understood.

Dave

 

Re: Re: AACSB not an option...

From talking with various professors at FSU, this should read, ... most B&M business schools frown upon "online" PhD or DBA programs, even those accredited by AACSB." From what I can tell, there is alot of bias against online programs from where-ever.

 

Re: Re: Re: AACSB not an option...

There are NO online AACSB-accredited doctorates, anywhere. There are AACSB-accredited external research doctorates that require significant residency over the course of the program.

Aston, Grenoble, Manchester and Henley offer these programs. I doubt that anyone would frown upon these programs. I think that other schools, such as Strathclyde and Surrey offer some type of external research sheme.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: AACSB not an option...

Your experience may be different, buy in my candid discussions with professors about any doctorate that did not include full-time residency were not positive.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: AACSB not an option...

I understand your statement and agree with you. I was mainly replying to your statement about AACSB-accredited "online" doctoral programs; they do not exist.

My statement is as follows: If you cannot obtain a full-time residential AACSB-accredited doctorate from a B&M school the next best thing is an external research part-time AACSB-accredited doctorate from a B&M school.

 

External research part-time AACSB accredited....

Scott...thanks for your input. It's greatly appreciated. OK, so in 24 hours my bubble has been blown up and burst more than once.

To clarify, you are suggesting that, as I'm not able to attend a B&M either part or full time, I should find a B&M school with "an external research part-time, AACSB accredited doctorate" program.

Any recommendations? Preferably in the US. Residencies are going to be hard. We can make it work, but the closer to home the better.

Many thanks.

 

Exactly, he had to work his way up. He wasn't hired directly into corporate. This is something he could have done with only a master's, or even just a bachelor's.

 

Re: External research part-time AACSB accredited....

Per post #3, by Mr. Scott Henley, in Europe, there are Aston, Grenoble, Henley, Manchester; in the US, there are no external research part-time AACSB accredited doctorates.

 

The whole package does count. Read Tony Pina's comments in the previous thread I mentioned.

I'm actually not in the camp that you MUST have a AACSB degree to teach at an AACSB university, particularly in the light that there is a projected shortage of business faculty as the baby boom echo grows up. However, for tenure, no one cares about teaching ability. There are plenty of Master's and ABDs who can do that. What's going to matter is how much research money can you pull in for the university. Hiring committees have much less faith in a part-time DL PhD student, than a full-time PhD student who worked under an assistantship who is familiar with the game and has cranked out a peer-review article or two, on top of the dissertation. They don't call it "Publish or Perish" for nothing.

My question is, why is that you only want to teach at an AACSB institution?

 

Edowave...thanks for the comments. I don't have to teach at an AACSB-acc school, but I would very much like to return to EKU where my grandparents, parents, cousins, etc attended. It's where generations have also taught.

Since I would be leaving the corporate world and entering academia, the next questions is...what would a non-AACSB-accredited school pay for a full time assistant prof? In this region I'd be looking at a first year around $83K at an AACSB univ. What percentage drop (if it can be quantified as such) would I be looking at?

 

Check out www.salary.com .

 

That alone can help you immensely in getting a position there. The "good ol' boys" club is definitely alive and well in academia. (Which is another reason why I don't recommend a DL program over a traditional one when looking for a teaching job.)

 

The following is from a table of average 2005 salaries (in thousands) for NEWLY minted business doctoral faculty at AACSB institutions:

Accounting/Taxation 114.8
CIS/MIS 89.6
Economics/Managerial Economics 71.0
Finance/Banking/Real Estate/Insurance 113.0
Management/Behavioral Science/International
Business/Strategic Management 90.0
Marketing 90.5
Production/Operations Management 96.8
Quantitative Methods/Operations
Research/Statistics 80.0
Combined (All fields/disciplines, including
fields/disciplines not listed above) 94.5

from: http://www.aacsb.edu/knowledgeservices/home/SSExecSummary_05-06.pdf

In my area the salaries at non-AACSB institutions run roughly from somewhat less than than half (accounting, finance) to sixty percent (economics) of these amounts.

 

I know I probably shouldn't get involved in this line of the thread, but excuse me for being confused. Are you saying that some people don't have have to work their way up? I must be doing this all wrong if you can actually start as the CEO! ;-)

 

Re: AACSB not an option...

Without tenure, you'll be looking for a new job every 6-7 years. Under AAUP guidelines, 7 years is the limit without receiving tenure.

As for the schools you list - without a PhD from an AACSB school, you're not likely to be employed. You may find employment at an ACBSP school, but even there you'll probably be expected to do some sort of scholarly work.

Regards - Andy

 

Re: Re: External research part-time AACSB accredited....

One caution should you go this route.

Many have spoken about the European options (Aston, Henley, etc.), but I've yet to meet (or read in this forum) of anyone that has successfully complete such a program. I don't doubt such people exist. But the question is - what percentage of those who start finish?

Schools like Nova Southeastern don't have a 100% graduation rate (by far), but non-completion is nearly always a personal choice. I'm not so sure about Europearn and Aussie schools.

Regards - Andy

 

I'm not either since I have several friends that do teach at AACSB schools with a doctorate from a non-AACSB school. It is merely a question of how easily will you get hired - and tenured - at an AACSB school. It certainly will be easier with a degree from an AACSB school.

There is a shortage of business school faculty - and the AACSB folks are planning to create a summer "finishing school" to help people transfer from other disciplines into business. This could make some sense - such as a sociologist becoming a management prof.

Regards - Andy