has to close forums!!

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by JNelson467, Jul 31, 2004.

  1. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    That couldn't be farther from the truth. People are only banned here after multiple TOS violations, or when it can be determined that a previously banned person comes back under a different screen name (ISP logs).

    Anyone is free to promote/defend their school of choice, but people should be forewarned that we have no control over the responses they might get, as long as they are within the TOS.

    Oh, and questioning a school's legitimacy with evidence is not a TOS violation. :)
  2. rocco5

    rocco5 member

    valid academic process ?

    I don't think anyone would argue that KU's academic process is the same as that of an RA institution. But Hayes claims that his dissertation was vetted by at least one legitimate Ph.D. adjunct faculty member who held his work to be worthy. A one-man dissertation committee is not my idea of the strongest type of Ph.D. process but to call it fraud seems a bit extreme. You know, at Yale, Ph.D. students don't have oral defenses, and nobody says Yale's degrees are suspect.

    Surely KU is non-standard, unconventional, etc. But if Universal Life Church doctorates legally confer the title "doctor" just for mailing in a $25 donation, why is Hayes not worthly of the title for mailing in a long paper, in fact, vetted by a responsible expert in his field ? Would I do it that way ? No, but if I earn a Ph.D., it will be to get a better job. Hayes already has one.:D
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2004
  3. rocco5

    rocco5 member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    I'll certainly try to keep an open mind, but I have seen some very unpleasant responses to posters who disagree with certain forum members here. And all that stuff between members of this forum and other forums was not exactly exemplary on any side according to me. Those of us who are trying to develop our educations look to those who already have them for examples.
  4. spmoran

    spmoran Member

    Here here. I like that.

  5. tcnixon

    tcnixon Active Member

    Re: valid academic process ?

    Not true. At least not completely true. There are certainly departments at Yale that require an oral defense (as evidenced by its own website). There are also some that don't.

    Tom Nixon
  6. Re: valid academic process ?

    Yes, it was supposedly vetted by one "legitimate" Ph.D. And Hayes finally admitted that this person was not even an expert in the field in which he submitted his dissertation. No worries, though. They just awarded the Ph.D. in a different field. I'm sure that happens all the time at Yale.

    Like many degree mill advocates, you are confusing legality with legitimacy.

    As far as I know, ULC doctorates are legal. But I don't know anyone, including many ULC degree holders, who would argue that they are legitimate.

    Knightsbridge degrees are also legal, as far as I can tell. That does not necessarily mean they are legitimate.

    But I do agree that Dr. Hayes' Ph.D. is just as legal/legitimate as the the ULC "Doctorate of the Universe" that my DOG "earned." No argument there.

    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2004
  7. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    The price has gone up. I paid $35 for my ULC doctorate.

    Dr. Oxpecker
  8. DaveHayden

    DaveHayden New Member

    Re: valid academic process ?

    Hmmm. Neil hayes went the KU route after buying another degree mill degree. ULC does not claim to grant academic degrees. KU has no known recognition of any kind and is one man show. It calls itself a university when it isn't. It uses a british name when it isn't. It seems to me calling it unconventional is EXTREMELY chartitable. While you may not call it a degree mill most people would.
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    This is so not true. Mentioning degree mills and the fake credentials they issue happens all the time here. Defending, even promoting them seems to get a pass. But sooner or later, the proponents of such frauds begin getting frustrated that their lies are so easily exposed that they resort to irrelevant, ad hominem attacks. That's when their accounts get banned.
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    Nope. I didn't have a thing to do with it, and didn't know about it, either. I might be one of their main targets, but I really don't give a care about what they say or do.

    I did, on the other hand, have a major hand in getting a bunch of them banned at awhile ago. It quieted that board down considerably. But no, I have not taken one iota of action regarding CollegeHints or Online-College, nor did I even know that someone else was. I found out when you did, then laughed about it.
  12. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    Nobody has ever refuted any of my ideas either.
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No, Hayes hasn't lied. To us. But listing a fake degree is the same as telling a lie, because people assume the degree is legitimate and you left them with that impression.

    Let's acknowledge that the process he used to obtain the degree isn't credible acadmically--an argument many have strenuously supported. Let's also acknowledge that there is no set of criteria applied to Knightsbridge that makes it a university. It has no curricula, it has no courses, it has no physical location, it operates under no governmental regulation, it has no form of recognition as a university (except that it itself says it is one). Is all that known to everyone who might see Hayes' listed credentials? Hardly. Can you imagine his outcry if, wherever he went professionally, someone took the trouble to point out these things? He would not be happy. But would it be the messenger, or the message? Degree mill shills complain about this all the time, but it reveals the specious nature of their degrees and their fear of being found out.

    In short, when one lists a degree, it is expected that such a listing reflects a legitimate degree. The burden should not be placed upon others to discern the fraud. It is the perpetrator of the fraud that carries the burden--and the paid of discovery.
  14. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    Nope. Didn't happen. Never. Not once.

    La la la la la la la la la...I can't hear la la la la....
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    at least not that you remember
  16. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Guys -I was being sarcastic to someone else - I get it.
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: valid academic process ?


    Just because ULC awards a title doesn't mean it has any academic gravitas.

    Is there a legitimately recognized institution anywhere in the world that either follows Knightsbridge's "process" or would recognize it as sufficient? It isn't "non-standard," it's non-existent. Who supervised the research? Who approved the one-man committee's work? What outside entity reviewed the dissertation and found it worthy? In fact, since the research question or questions were not set up and approved by Knightsbridge in advance, and then the research conducted under Knightsbridge's supervision, it isn't really a dissertation, is it?

    A chicken that doesn't give milk, moo, and provide steaks when you butcher it isn't a "non-conforming cow," no matter how hard it tries to convince you it is. It's a chicken. A diploma mill that doesn't follow the processes a university does, isn't a university, no matter if it tries to pretend to be one.
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    Can you provide an example of even one personal attack by a forum member here directed to one on one of those other boards?
  19. rocco5

    rocco5 member

    social conventions

    OK, Dr. Douglas, I think here is the point where we may disagree a bit. There are millions of titles of all sorts out there. ULC has awared millions of ordinations and degrees--all legal--as been extenstively discussd today here. These titles are legal. Are the academically worthy--no, but whose responsibility is it to be awake to the merit or validity of degrees and titles ?

    If some bozo calls himself Duke of Carpathia (no refence to Uncle Janko), I can choose to believe or I can investigate. If a TV preacher calls himself D.D. and asks for your donation, whose business is it to verify that this dude is on the level before passing over your bucks ? As far as degrees are concerned, I am suspicious: when I first heard of Union, I checked out to see if it was a real university--because of my ignorance of DL, I needed to check. If somebody claims to be Dr. So-and-So, I ususally ask where did you get your degree and in what area. If I hear the name of some place strange, I can check.

    Duke or Doctor, just titles that need to be confirmed. What about that SRU quack dispensing medical advice--I can CHOOSE to take his adivce or LOL.

    I do see your point about conventional exspectations of what holding a degree is meant to indicate, but perhaps with all the fake degrees around, the time of accepting anyting in this department at face value has passed.
  20. rocco5

    rocco5 member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: satire site

    For openers; it's generic but it seems to suggest that anyone who posted on that forum is, well, excrement and does "egregious" things, whatever they may be:

    "When A Cesspool Gets Full, It Must Be Cleaned and Pumped

    Now, what does that say about the individuals who provide content (in the form of posts), and therefore traffic, for Online-College’s discussion forum? It is doubtful that any of them will be ashamed of their support for degree mills (the few that do not openly do so, or those who profess to oppose them), as their personal behavior is typically much more egregious than that.

    Gus Sainz"
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2004

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