CollegeHints.com has to close forums!!

Enough, already!

Let's stop dancing around these issues and softening the facts, shall we? I don't want this thread to pass into history with no one daring to tell things like they truly are.

The online-college-info web site was an abomination, plain and simple. It not only wasn't moderated, but even when outrageous, harmful, hurtful, defamatory, lying, unconscionable postings were made there, and even when one could point-out same to the site's owner and asked him to remove them, he didn't give a damn. He allowed a tiny handful of posters there to write absolutely anything they wanted, no matter how foul and indecent, no matter whom it hurt, no matter what lines of civility and decency it crossed, no matter what terms of its hosting providers' Acceptable Use Policies (AUP) it violated, and no matter what statutory laws it broke. When his web site was finally killed and he tried to offer-up an explanation, he insulted those of us who knew the truth by saying that he just never visited the site and, therefore, had no idea what was going on there. Give me a f__king break!

The online-college.info site's most viralent postings -- usually made by an immature, semi-psychotic, sawed-off little sociopath known, variously, as "S. Lavin" or "Don Taylor" or "Dr R. Shields" or "Lawrence Barzelai" or "Ray Tumak" or "Markie Israel" or "Chumash Tribe" or "Dr. John Bear" or "Gustav Sainz" or "D. Shiller" or "Ure Saclitz" or any of a number of other aliases -- were so far over the top that it stunned the senses of virtually any rational, ethical person with even the smallest amount of human decency coursing through his/her veins who happened to have the misfortune of reading them.

Seemingly countless postings there targeted Mark Israel and openly called for his death as a result of the tragic head injury that has relatively recently befallen him; and which has left him unable to speak or to even know who or where he is; and has devastated his family in ways I wouldn't wish on even the worst of my enemies -- and believe me, I've got some damned deserving enemies!

As a consequence of my very civil but unambiguously critical comments in these forums about the unconscionable Mark Israel posts over in online-college.info, I suddenly became a target there -- variously being accused first of pimping prostitutes, then killing them, then having something to do with the murder of Laci Peterson, etc., etc., etc. Not a syllable of it -- not one -- was based on anything even remotely true, and all of it was intentionally inflammatory, seditious and inciteful for its own sake. The mean-spiritedness of it was nearly unprecedented. They were the very definition of defamation, in incontrovertible violation of every libel law of every state; and were cogently illustrative of the very reason such laws were enacted in the first place. Moreover, they violated the AUP of online-college.info's web hosting provider, which is ultimately what got the site cut-off at its knees. Believe it.

The collegehints.com web site was obviously not in the same league as the online-college.info site, but let's stop kidding ourselves, here, shall we? It was populated by the very same nutjobs as populated online-college.info and who had, most of them, been banned from these forums. It accepted advertising revenues from known diploma mills -- the definition of which everyone here and over there knows, and I'm sick and tired of people now pretending they don't! It allowed certain people to say whatever the hell they wanted, and banned others for calling them on it -- then justified itself by saying that it was doing no differently, nor being any more selective, nor showing any more (or any different kind of) favoritism, than the moderators here at DegreeInfo do.

Well that's just not true, and I'm tired of reading the opposing assertion repeated here, ad nauseum, in the hope that by said repetition it will somehow, miraculously become so. Life isn't the gray area that some in this thread (and elsewhere) would have the world believe. A famous journalist once wrote that the problem with reporters trying to be so fair and balanced all the time, and with editors who refuse to publish something unless they can get a quote espousing an opposing viewpoint, is that sometimes there is no other side; some things are just true (or not), and it's as simple as that. Res ipsa loquitur. Not all of life's mysteries are mysterious, as Ockham's Razor teaches us.

I'm sick to death of all the equivocating, prevaricating, tersgiversating, and outrageously paltering bull___t that I'm reading here and elsewhere about this issue. The collegehints.com web site was only barely better than online-college.info and saying otherwise won't change that. Its moderator wasn't doing his job anywhere near well enough to be considered responsible. Among other things, he was allowing near-psychotic ramblings and personal attacks that danced dangerously (and I would guess, in his mind, tantalizingly) on the line of defamation, often allowing a toe or occasionally an entire foot to cross over, with impunity.

Anyone who believes that either of those forums, and this one, are in the same league is flat-out delusional -- intentionally so, in some cases, as I'm coming to believe about at least one poster in this very thread. There isn't a chance in hell that, as long as they continue to be operated as they are now, these forums will ever suffer the same fate as those. Ever! Not a chance.

Those two forums got exactly what was coming to them. Let any new forums pop-up to replace them which behave as egregiously as they did, and I, for one, will personally guarantee their demise! I have no problem with wide-ranging, highly-charged discourse -- even when it gets heated and goes nearly over-the-top. I tolerate the ignorant, misguided, ridiculous points of view of others all day, every day -- here and elsewhere -- and would unhesitatingly lay down my very life to ensure that those espousing them will always have the right to so express themselves in this free society of ours.

But living in this free society means understanding certain boundaries of civility and limits of simple, human decency; and imposes upon us certain duties as part of our obligations under the implied social contract. It always has, and it always will. The First Amendment, contrary to popular belief, does not guarantee anyone's right to say (or to post, as the case may be) anything they want, no matter whom it hurts. If you don't believe it, just try going into a crowded theater and screaming "Fire!" when there is, in fact, none. Watch how fast you'll be fitted with a pair of handcuffs; and good luck arguing your First Amendment rights as a defense.

Stop coming into these forums and defending those others. They were indefensible, and their respective fates are as it should be. Were this forum to ever sink to their same despicable levels, I would say the very same about it. This has nothing to do with who they were but, rather, what they did. It was not political, or biased, or even unfair. They incurred their demise. One's actions in life have consequences -- as I hope the owners of those two sites (and any others reading this) have now learned... sadly, the hard way.

Buried somewhere down in among their hundreds of postings of outrageous content there might well have been things that were inherently right. But guess what? They're gone. And I, for one, will not shed any tears.

 

Greg - I'd like to thank you for two things.
The first is your candor in the above post. It was all very well said. Secondly, I'd like to thank you for using the word tergiversating. One of my favorite forms of exercize is reaching for my dictionary.
Jack

 

No, not there. But lots of laughter here. What a joke.

The people who ran that board acted like scum. That they banned me is a badge of honor, especially in the way they did it. No warning, no explanation, and no violation of the TOS. Just a challenge to degree mill shills. That was enough. (The degree mills that were sacred cows, like Knightsbridge.)

Let me reiterate: Knightsbridge University is a diploma mill. It sells degrees with no academic processes. It makes no attempt to demonstrate academic processes, and has been granted no authority to grant degrees. It is a diploma mill.

 

Re: Enough, already!

Hear, hear!

Brilliant post. Thanks for stating so eloquently how many of us feel.

Cheers,
Adrienne

 

Indeed!

 

Re: where to go when the mall closes

These two forums have suddenly become fairly active. I wonder if there's a link between this and what happened to the closed forums?

Is there a chance that Glen might be convinced to post the contents (and header) of that anonymous mail message to DegreeInfo?

Could somebody ask him?

G

 

Re: Enough, already!

Have you some inside information on this fact, perhaps? Something you would like to share with the group?

 

Actually, I took college-info as a sort of satire site. When these guys would start on about their mill degrees, I would post some reference to the Rev Dr Quigley, who is fondly known in our house as my bulldog. And his degree is just as legit as theirs.

 

And, of course, if this is not true, Knightsbridge is already contacting its lawyers to sue you.

I'd be worried if I were you.





Tom Nixon

 

The ODA states, "Appears to be a diploma mill. ODA has no evidence that this is a legitimate provider of postsecondary education meeting Oregon standards. Does not have recognized approval by Denmark."

If you ever read Neil Hayes description of how he got his PhD from KU, I believe that any reasonably minded person that has a mild familiarity with the granting of real doctorate degrees would have to conclude that KU is a diploma mill.

KU is a diploma mill, IMHO as well.

 

I presume you submitted in excess of 600,000 words in your area of specialization in obtaining your PhD.

 

Agree. The aliases specialized in chipping away at egos. They left me alone and I'm grateful.

 

I once asked Henrik about the situation of his University. He told me than in Denmark, there are no private University regulations and it is free market. He also explained that they have some adjunct contract faculty that supervises the dissertations on a one-to-one basis. He also explained that some of the graduates manage to get into RA Universities in the US. I agree that it is a one man show but the attacks to his place are non sense, he seems to be a legit business man running a distance learning school. If in Denmark they don't have regulations for private schools then it is not really an illlegal business. He also runs business seminars on campus, so he is more like a training institute rather than a University.

 

Hi RF

Certainly that is the story Henrik is peddling. As pointed out previously, all the best con-men have a great story and that combined with the victim's greed equals money in their pocket. Using a little common sense though it is clear to see this is just a con. How many legitimate Universities are a one man show and have no recognized accreditation or authorization of any kind? What he operates is the equivilent of Robert Kennedy College of Switzerland. Both are clear degree mills.

 

Re: Enough, already!

<post deleted by moderator>

 

Read the story about how KU worked in one example (or didn't work).

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=119760#post119760

 

Dennis, you must hve confused me with your academic fraud buddy Dr. Hayes Ph.D..

 

No one said it was illegal. But it isn't a university, either. These aren't "attacks." They're criticisms and conclusions contrary to the desires of the diploma mill and its customers.

 

Re: Enough, already!

Gregg,

I appreciate your candor and excellent post.

My visits to both forums were always disappointing experiences. First and foremost, I visit Degreeinfo because it is a good source of up-to-the-minute information on programs and issues in distance learning. Bantering and political/religious sidelining aside, there are many well-informed folks who monitor the goings on of distance learning across the world and post their findings here. They do us all a great service. As someone whose profession is instrucitonal technology (including distance learning), Degreeinfo is a valued resource.

CollegeHints and online-college.info failed to provide any useful information for me that I could not already get at Degreeinfo. The endless posts attacking John Bear and Rich Douglas were below useless and the posts reveling in Mark Israel's tragedy bordered on criminal insanity. Such items were a waste of web hosting space and a total waste of my time.

Because Degreeinfo continues to be a place where...

...new users can come to get good advice about whether they should choose this school over that one or whether there are any differences between Excelsior vs. COSC vs. TESC vs. UMUC vs. UOP...

...new and expereinced users can get the latest info on DETC, ODA, RA (and the rest of the alphabet soup)...

...people are willing to share their experiences, biases, opinions and research without being flamed (but with the expectation that they may be challenged)...

...Degreeinfo will continue to grow and thrive while other lesser forums fall by the wayside.

Tony Pina
Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino