California Coast/DETC News

Re: Re: Does this mean that CCU Will Offer Doctorates once more? What will their status be?

I agree.

People who are presented with a CCU Ph.D. might inquire about whether or not CCU is accredited. They will discover that the school is accredited by DETC. But these inquirers are unlikely to investigate the effective dates or the precise scope of what DETC really accredited. So non-accredited degrees granted by CCU will get a definite free-rider effect from the school's accreditation.

I realize that some CCU graduates will try to exploit that confusion, and some will probably do so successfully, but I see no reason why I'm obligated to fall for it.

Of course in real life, the impact might be small. I mean, who hires Ph.D.s?

I think that if a position requires the kind of advanced expertise represented by a doctorate, employers are going to be putting a great deal of emphasis on education. That means that they are going to be examining at the details of that education very closely. (It isn't just going to be a 'check the box' deal like it so often is for BA's.) Employers are going to want to know about the details of the graduate's research work, about his or her publications, about recommendations and departmental reputation, and stuff like that.

I've watched Ph.D.-level hiring at a California State University and at a Bay Area biotech firm, and in both cases scrutiny of the candidate went way beyond looking for anyone out there who's clutching a degree that has Dept of Ed. recognized accreditation.

If a CCU Ph.D. can clear this kind of hurdle (I wonder whether that's likely), then it might not matter a whole lot whether or not the degree is DETC accredited.

I think that we might be making this DETC accreditation thing into something more important than it really is.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Does this mean that CCU Will Offer Doctorates once more? What will their status be?

Looks like the bit of humor wasn't taken as such, or...........perhaps its Monday!

 

I believe one of the reasons DETC is supportive of CCU continuing its doctoral programs is that DETC needs to gain experience in evaluating that level of education along with innovations in the field of distance education doctorates. The best way to do that is to work with their constituent schools who offer those programs.

Discontinuing CCU's doctoral programs would not only derail the school's current commitments and growth potential, it derails the DETC train as well.

 

An important point that should be remembered. One non-dissertation doctoral program. Just one.

 

Interesting idea, but not based in any observable fact. There is no indication of that, and Sue Reilly didn't bring that up as a factor when I spoke with her about CCU teaching out its doctoral students. And if such a condition as you suggest actually existed, CCU wouldn't have been required to drop the programs. In fact, they would be a de facto pilot--something we are certain is not occuring yet, and won't likely include CCU when/if it happens.

I suspect Sue Reilly was accurate and complete when she said DETC wanted CCU honor its commitments to enrolled doctoral students. But if you have information to the contrary, I'd love to see it!

(And to "Phd Cyberspace," please show me where I am "biased" against CCU. I have opinions like anyone else, but I don't think I've shown a pre-disposition regarding them, especially since I've been looking at them since 1980.)

 

For anyone interested, the new 2005 DETC Handbook on the new pilot program for the proposed upcoming doctorates.

http://www.detc.org/acredditHandbk.html

Go to C.16.

Policy on Doctoral Degree Program - Pilot Program.

RXI

 

Rich Douglas "An important point that should be remembered. One non-dissertation doctoral program. Just one."

This is more of the one-track mindedness that has been stated numerous times before. Here's also an important point to remember ...neither does the Union Interdisciplinary Arts and Farts PhD.

 

Flame to follow....

Rod, this is idiotic, reactive, and lacks even the most simple insight.

I posted that as a reminder that the criticisms regarding CCU's non-dissertation doctorate should be limited; that CCU offers only one, the DBA. It was supportive, not negative. Talk about being biased! You can't even stand to have someone post something supportive! Reactionary jerkiness, that's what it is.

Regarding Union, more than 90% of Union's graduates write traditional dissertations. The other 9 or 10 percent develop other, similar projects that have a significant research component, as well as original and meaningful contributions to their respective fields. In other words, they, too, rise to the level of a dissertation. Of course, this is certainly beyond your capacity to understand, but I figured others who read your petty little comment might want to know.

Rod, it's obvious you have a chip on your shoulder regarding your fake DBA program. But at least read the post before crying about it.

I get sick of people trying to make things personal, but Rod chose to do it. He can't defend CCU's fake DBA, so he makes a personal attack. Okay, it's personal. I'm not going to sit quietly while he does it.

 

From it:

Learning objectives for the program and learning outcomes for the courses, research projects, dissertation and all other required academic or professional activities must be clearly stated.

Oooh. A dissertation. Bummer.

 

Professor Rich, PhD,

I watch you criticize other people in this forum and it makes me sick. Do I understand it took you nine months to complete your doctorate from start to finish? And am I correct that you state that the Union is having problems at present and isn't it a fact that they have had on going problems with their programs since the conception of the programs in the 1960s.

How can you be so narrow minded regarding CCU and the other legitimate unaccredited degree programs available by distance learning? You hold yourself out to be a professional, but I would say that you don't have the personal class to be categorized as one.

Good Day Sir!

 

To all......We now know that CCU has achieved DETC accreditation. I think it is time to move on to other subjects. Please Let go of all these never-ending "bickerings" about CCU. There are many dangerous "educational outfits" out there that consumers of education need to be informed. I am sure there are many learned people here that are always willing to guide these these consumers to the proper channel of obtaining accredited education. Thank you.

 

Ray:

Thanks for the personal attack. I don't initiate such, but I'll respond in kind from time-to-time. It gets old taking that stuff.

No, I didn't do my Union doctorate in 9 months. Any moron would know better. Why don't you?

Union has had financial problems since I can remember (1979 is when I first heard about them). Recently, they've had to re-tool their doctoral program to address both inadequacies and to narrow their offerings. We haven't seen the results, yet.

I don't "hold (myself) out to be a professional." If you'd lay off the personal attack and stick to the issues, we'd all be better off. It seems that the only "fact" you offered in the above post was wrong. Better luck next time.

As for unaccredited schools, mine has been a supportive, but evolving, stance for decades. Where the hell have you been?

I'm not taking this stuff from degree mill shills anymore. If the moderators don't want to step in and warn these people, then I'll just respond in kind. Move over, Levicoff!

 

Good point. Please note, however, it is people who are pursuing unaccredited doctorates from CCU that are perpetuating this stuff.

 

Rich: you're getting pretty defensive there. It's obvious through your incessant repetition of the same point that there's a problem all right, and it seems to be on your side. I think everyone is getting pretty tired of reading the same thing over and over... do you think it's erudite and clever?? I hear a lot of whining when you get slammed as a result. And you don't like it when your efforts or affiliations are called into question. Fake!! I didn't promote a MIGS PhD, mister "PhD candidate". Want to see the quote on that one??

And did I forget to mention, the Union PhD doesn't even require Comprehensives!! but it does allow your buddy to sit on the Committee!!!

Keep it up.

 

No prvision for "upgrading"

I received the following in response to an inquiry if there was any way to "upgrade" a previous degree without repeating the entire program:

Unfortunately, there is no way to "grandfather" degrees of past graduates. The only way to earn an accredited degree, is to enroll in a new program and complete the current requirements. There is no other way to take a few courses and to "upgrade" a degree to an accredited status. However, we believe our graduates will benefit through the increased recognition that National Accreditation brings to California Coast University.

Best regards,

Murl D. Tucker, Ph.D.
Vice President, Academic Affairs

 

Which "buddy" was that, Rod? I see you're confused on the facts. I didn't know any of my committee members prior to them joining the committee. You're repeating someone else's lies, which will not do you well in your doctoral "research."

Feel free to flame all you want. But get your facts right.

 

Re: No prvision for "upgrading"

Dr. Tucker raises a valuable point. Even if one's CCU degree was earned prior to accreditation (and thus, technically, an unaccredited degree), that degree becomes much more valuable because of CCU's subsequent accreditation. First, most people won't compare someone's graduation date with the date of CCU's accreditation. Second, and much more important, the eventual acccreditation of CCU implies that it was operating at an "accreditable" level prior to actual accreditation.

As an employer, I wouldn't bother with making the distinction and would treat pre-accreditation and post-accreditation CCU degrees in the same way: acceptable. (I also think DETC-accredited degrees are acceptance-worthy, even though that isn't always the case out there. I know, I know, I'm supposed to be "RA-or-no-way," but that has never been true.)

 

Re: Re: Does this mean that CCU Will Offer Doctorates once more? What will their status be?

Perhaps part of the problem here is that DETC doesn't have a formal pre-accreditation or candidacy status.

Those accreditors that do have pre-accreditation status would give their applicant schools the opportunity to teach out students in discontinued programs while the school is still in candidacy.

I think that DETC should stop moving schools directly from applicant to accredited, and should adopt a pre-accreditation candidacy status like most of the other institutional accreditors use.

 

Dear Professor Rich, PhD,

Anyone who disagrees with you is quote "shilling". By the way, please let me know what a shill is. And just because the CCU PhD Degrees aren't accredited, they aren't necessarily a degree mill. Would you say that about the graduates of the Union Institute prior to them receiving accreditation?

You contradict yourself. In one post you say, "I don't "hold (myself) out to be a professional." Then in another statement you attack me and say, "Oh, I have a Ph.D. specializing in this field (nontraditional higher education). And you?"

I got to give you credit, you are a skillful debater. I happen to know that the powers to be of the various universities referenced here watch these forums. I know that what you are saying regarding CCU isn't taken lightly, by anyone. It does not personally bother me because your opinion is meaningless, but there may reach a point where you find yourself liable for your remarks, Mr. PhD (Specializing in Non Traditional Education).

You dish it out, but you can't take it!

 

Re: Re: No prvision for "upgrading"

If the employer in question, however, happens to be the U.S. Government (the largest employer in the United States, hiring 2.0 percent of the nation's civilian work force), according to the new rules, this distinction does indeed become relevant. Moreover, it does not seem that the issue concerns the date the degree was awarded, but instead, “the time the education was obtained.”