Accreditation/State Authorization

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by Torry, Sep 30, 2001.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Byran/Torry/To Whom it May Concern:

    Could you elaborate as to why you do not like unaccredited schools, except Cal Coast?
    I'm just curious!

    Who shares his computer with no one, and has his wife's permission to say so!! [​IMG]
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This explanation has been offered and rejected on this board by others caught logging in as more than one person. Of course, your case might be the one that's true.

    When presented with two explanations for the same event, it is prudent to accept the simpler one over the more complex, or the likely over the less likely. It is simpler and likely that you two are the same person.

    I took a look at when "Torry" posts; it is in the evening (EDT) into the night. I see you've done the same, along with some daytime posts. Just when is it that Torry is at your workstation when you're not?

    Finally, I noticed you responded to one of "Torry's" posts with a one-liner about how I have morals. Seems odd if you both work in the same place.

    You might be two different people using the same computer. But since "Torry" hasn't identified himself, that leaves only one: you.

    (Two ISP's isn't sufficient. I access this board through two, and have others available to me.)

    If there is some way to independently confirm the identity of "Torry," then I'll go along. Until then, there is no "Torry." There is also no reason to respond to "Torry" because there is no "Torry" (yet). And there certainly is no reason to pursue this further.

    Rich Douglas
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    That's tellin' her, Russell! In my house I'm the one who....hey, I gotta go empty the trash and wash the dishes. I'll finish that thought later....

    Rich, who loves Paula very much. [​IMG]
  4. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    As Tom H. mentioned, it is indeed a quirk of IE to save usernames and passwords. I found this out myself when I ordered about $200.00 worth of books through Amazon and hit the "one click" ordering. I didn't realize it until too late that my wife was the last one to buy through them, so my order got billed to her credit card...not exactly a bad thing. [​IMG]

    In any event, I don't have any reason to doubt Byran's explanation, he's been very consistent in the past about not being a fan of unaccredited schools in general.

  5. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Thank you Jimmy, but there was only one question: “Being that a degree from a regionally accredited school offers infinitely more utility and security, why would anyone settle for an unaccredited school over a properly accredited one?”

    Being that you have in the past claimed degrees from both kinds of unaccredited “schools” that I referred to in my post, I feel that you are eminently qualified to answer my question.

    So, what are you saying, that all regionally accredited schools are blasphemous, crude and outright immoral? Is that the reason to settle for unaccredited schools? Is this the answer to my question? Or are you saying there simply weren’t any other accredited schools offering the degree you wanted?

    And I am a bit confused. Recently you claimed to be proud of your affiliation with Earlham and signed a post (on AED) as:
    Jimmy Clifton, PROUD alumnus of Delta State University, Bethany
    Theological Seminary, Summit University, Itawamba Jr. College, Augusta
    College, Earlham School of Religion, Southeastern Georgia University,
    and Pepperdine University.

    I do not profess to have much knowledge of, or interest in, religious education, but I take it you mean the unaccredited Bethany Bible College and Seminary in Dothan, AL, and not Bethany Theological Seminary, and especially not the Bethany Theological Seminary of Richmond, IN, which is not only accredited by the Higher Learning Commission of the North Central Association of Colleges and Secondary Schools and ATS but affiliated with the Earlham School of Religion. This is of course, an understandable and easily made mistake; I can only imagine how often it happens.

    And how does claiming accreditation at various times from several completely fraudulent accreditors (which Bethany Bible College and Seminar has done) adhere to fundamental Christian morals and ethics? Like I said, I don’t have much knowledge concerning religious education.

    Difficulty is subjective and relative but mostly dependent on the student, and his or her intelligence and work ethic. I am dismayed that only some of the exams were proctored.

    Concerning your research and documentation skills please refer to my statement on difficulty above. Concerning the time frame in which it took you to receive your degree, I have a few questions. What do you mean nearly two years? Was it 18 months? Is that nearly two years? And did that include the internship? Was that for both the Th.M. and Ph.D? If so, it seems that regardless of how difficult you found the program, you “completed” it in an amazingly short period of time.

    Here, once again, you seem to paint all accredited schools (and their alumni) with a very broad brush, as unethical and immoral. You seem to have a penchant for unethical psychiatrists and psychologists. I seem to recall that you used to identify yourself as "The Rev. Dr. James Walter Clifton, LMHC., LCSW, LMFT, Nationally Certified Clinical Psychologist.” Ostensibly, you claimed to be a Psychologist based on your “Psy.D.” degree from Summit University, a known degree mill (now out of business) that others on this forum have attested demanded absolutely no coursework, allowed them to create their own transcript, with the degree being mailed as soon as the funds cleared. (I know, I know, you’re going to say, “But I did a lot of work for my degree!”)

    Although I understand that degrees from Bethany and Summit would not allow you achieve licensure in any state, it is even more troubling that you claimed to be a Nationally Certified Clinical Psychologist. This served no other purpose than to deceive individuals in need that you were indeed a licensed psychologist. I do not know if NAMP (the Northamerican Association of Masters in Psychology) actually issued you the National Clinical Psychologist certification, but I do know that their Web site clearly states that part of the criteria is “A masters or doctoral degree in psychology (40 hour > minimum) from a regionally accredited university[emphasis added]; 2 years post graduate experience in a clinical, applied, or academic setting involved in psychological services and/or activities; and passing an examination on psychological theory and practice.” These actions can only be characterized as fraudulent reckless and dangerous. You keep pointing to unethical characters that committed malpractice, and as result, lost their license; ironically, you have no such license to loose.

    But I digress. Were you trying to answer my question by stating that graduates of accredited schools can be unethical and that is the reason to choose an unaccredited school over a properly accredited one? Was that your answer to my question?

    Gus Sainz
  6. Byran Lee

    Byran Lee member


    I understand your concerns about the "made up" nature of Torry. You have every right to believe so, and I believe every posters here have the right to think the same.

    I'm not going to put down my friend here, nor am I even going to spend a minute time explaining whether he exists or not. I'm telling you that he does exist. So there.

    Yes, we do share the same workstation. We share this computer, and that's why we each pay for our own Internet service provider. I have my own Infoserve provider here in Vancouver, BC, and I have emailed the adminstrators with my own "ISP provided" email for this mess in an effort to explain the situation to them. I've asked them to delete my post to avoid the "confusion." Even so, I guess they chose to keep the post.

    I'm not saying that the following is an endorsement, but Bruce has checked my previous posts since my registration to this forum at around Feb last yr. Earlier, I've suggested to everyone to do so because I have nothing to hide. You can study the 100 posts I've done since last yr and I have not endorsed any unaccredited schools to anyone, with the exception of my slight favortism toward Calcoast and Calpacific. In fact, I have been very critical on Century alumni or even Neil Hynd. These posts can easily be retrieved by using the "search" function.

    I'm quite annoyed by this, because now everyone thinks I'm a Century fan. As I've mentioned earlier, I'm not. I mentioned about taking pictures of the unaccredited Senior University International. These were sent to John Bear and others around 1yr to 2yrs ago. I noted that because I want to emphasize that I'm not a fan of shaddy schools, period.

    This is a review I wrote, on John Bear's book, logged "Mar 31, 2001."

    I'm not going to reveal who Torry is and what he does. This is the best I can do to explain the situation and I've done my best. All I will say is that Torry and I are coworkers. Many people use the same workstation here, but I do not know how many of them are lurkers in this forum. I happened to be the one who introduced Torry to this forum. We both know we have different views on accreditation issues, but that doesn't mean we are enemies. I don't see how, from posting opposing opinions on this forum, should sever my working relationship with Torry. While I treat my posts here with a bit more seriousness than I should, he might be here simply to fuck around and have fun. We might not agree on the legitimacy on Century, that doesn't mean we have to give each other black eyes about it. It's his choice on what he wants to do with his degree. He has been warned, but I deduce he must have reasons which I'm not not even going to bother to guess. I'm pursuing my own accredited degree so I really don't care about his situation. I don't know what his rationales are for choosing Century, defending Century, arguing with everybody here, calling Richard and John Bear liars...whatever, so he's free to do what he wants. I tried to stay out of this thread that he started, I guess I should have.

  7. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Mr. Lee has indeed been very helpful to me in providing photographs of the nonwonderful Vancouver academic scene, with appropriately ascerbic commentary.

    He writes: " Torry and I are coworkers. Many people use the same workstation here" --but one does wonder -- at 11 pm?

    I also note that the first 'defense' of Mr. Lee comes from Quinn Tyler Jackson, making his first post here, also, I believe, posting from Vancouver. Might he be yet a third person sharing that work station.

    Look, in a world where someone driving peacefully across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco to Berkeley is suddenly and instantly killed by a falling safety shield, designed to keep things from falling on cars (this happened last week), truly the most improbable things do happen. But they remain improbable.
  8. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    An exercise, doubtless flawed, in statistics.

    Let's say there are about a million people with knowledge and opinions on distance learning. Probably low.

    About 1,000 people are registered on this forum, or about one in a thousand.

    There are about 60 states and provinces.

    So the chance that two registered people are in the same state or province is about one in 17. But the chance that two people with interest in the field are in the same state or province are 1 in 17,000.

    Now, as a totally wild guess, probably again very low, let us say there 100,000 work stations in British Columbia. So the chance of two people with interest in the field, on this forum, at the same work station might be one in 1.7 billion.

    Now, of those million (very low) people with an interest in distance learning, let us say one percent have knowledge and interest in Century, pro or con. Probably high. But even at one percent, are we up to the possibility that two people on this forum in British Columbia at the same work station with opinions on Century might be in the vicinity of one in 170 billion.

    Finally, with about 8,800 hours in the year, the chances of a posting during any given hour would be one in 8,800. So the odds of (see prior paragraph) are now in the vicinity of one in 1.5 quadrillion (which may well be precisely the odds of being killed by a falling safety shield on the Bay Bridge at 11 am on a Tuesday in September).
  9. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    On my honor as someone with a really long name, I promise that I share my workstation with no one. Even my children are not allowed near my computer.

    Greater Vancouver is a very large set of cities, with over a million people altogether. Not withstanding the Six Degrees of Separation, I don't know Byran Lee from Bruce Lee.

    My jump-in to 'defend' Mr. Lee is simply that my version of Occam's Razor, unlike that of some, is to assume innocence until guilt is proven, since innocence is the simpler and most likely of a guilt-innocence decision when one considers that it was immediately clear in the "Torry" post signed by Byran that Byran was speaking in no uncertain terms of his view of non-accredited institutions, whereas one assumes that Torry holds a more benevolent view as regards these institutions. The "voice" of the post was simply and clearly that of Byran, and his simple and likely explanation made perfect sense to a nitwit like me.

  10. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    99.2349% of statistics are made up on the spot. ;-)

  11. Byran Lee

    Byran Lee member

    One more thing I wish to add, I realize you're a "voice" here on this forum, and if you must bring up this subject and spend more time on it, I welcome you to do so because I don't give a shit about it.

    I'm very sorry if I've spoiled your fun if this forum is a very important part of your life before your "retirement."

    So go ahead. Ban my ID should you feel like. I'm sure you'll be here in the next 10 years since you're never going to retire anyways. Was that part of your marketing plan? It remains probable, too.

    So either put up, or shut up.

  12. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    Oh, my. We've both put "voice" in quotation marks within mere minutes of one another! Mr. Lee ... how do I know that you're not I? That I am not you?

    Now this is some bit of synchronicity, isn't it?

  13. Byran Lee

    Byran Lee member

    While I regret my last post due to pure frustration, here's my last post:

    Torry is not me.
    Byran is not Torry.

    So long everyone.

  14. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    Actually, that's a bit off, since we are not dealing with a random sample. The likelihood of two people at the same company having shared interests and a shared terminal is more than likely HIGHER than the likelihood of two people, chosen completely at random, since people talk over lunch, get to know one another, take an interest in one another's interests, and so on.

    This is similar to saying that the likelihood of two people at the same company being interested in Oragami is the same as that of two people selected entirely at random. If an Oragami fan brings his or her craftsmanship to work -- the chances are someone else (who never previously expressed an interest in oragami) would become interested, upon seeing this.

  15. qjackson

    qjackson New Member

    I apologize for my spelling. Origami.

  16. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    You know, Byran, I'm still pretty sure you're not Torry. But you're making me extremely sorry I defended you.

    This is an extremely common situation for me, a philosophical theist, to be in. I argue with people over their use of Ockham's Razor. But in the middle of what's really a very civil conversation, someone--almost always someone who agrees with me--says something that ruins the civil conversation, and leaves me wondering why I bother.

    This is a slightly different situation, because you're being accused of using a second account. But, goodness, wouldn't you rather be accused of using a second account than of flaming John Bear?

    This is all assuming that you're Byran using Byran's account, not Torry using Byran's account. But personally, I'm beginning to favor banning you both and being done with it.


    Tom Head

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
  17. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Byran, a mix-up of user ID's from a shared workstation won't get you banned, but personal attacks will. Cool down a bit, okay? Thanks.

  18. Tom Head

    Tom Head New Member

    It's worth mentioning that this is not a threat (as I have no administrative privileges)--just a sentiment.

    And I, too, will try to lay off the personal attacks. (But jeez, Byran...)


    Tom Head

    co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
    co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)
  19. Byran Lee

    Byran Lee member

    Tom, Bruce,

    I genuinely appreciate all this. Maybe I've overreacted from a long day. I was just pissed off and frustrated because things will never be the same. Now I'm thinking I shouldn't have posted the amazon link here since it's a bit private. last post..really...

    So long.

  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Here's another one. It's remarkable that someone with 6 (six!) posts in all happens to be reading this thread at this point in time when his name is mentioned.

    A trip through Bryan Lee's previous posts does indeed reflect a distaste for Century University. Pretty amazing coincidence that he'd have a co-worker who not only uses his workstation, but also logs into this obscure little forum. Not only that, he, too, has a rather detailed--though opposite--opinion of a school that almost no one has heard of. In fact, he's enrolled there, all the way from Canada (where such a degree will almost certainly be worthless).

    Quinn/Bryan/Torry: Stick to the issues. And if it isn't too much trouble, pick one side of each issue, along with one identity. I, for one, am pretty ticked off about being engaged in an absurd argument with a ghost.

    To the moderators: If this isn't a clear sign that you need to do something about how people join and log in, I don't know what is. Either put in some controls or re-name this place AED 2.

    Rich Douglas

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