Accreditation/State Authorization

In this post, I've called "Torry" a liar and a weasel. S/he is both. It is hard to examine the truths about an institution you've made a commitment to. I should know. I thought MIGS would do what it said it would do, so I supported it. It took a lot of soul searching to come to the conclusion that it would not. So I left. I do not expect others in similar predicaments to act. But I find it reprehensible that people like this choose to lie about their school in order to justify their choice.

You've chosen Century. Most others in this forum find that school to be a joke and a fraud. It is clear that there are no other facts about Century to be brought forth for discussion. Perhaps it would be best if we dropped the matter. You do your degree(s) with Century. We'll hold the school in contempt. Everybody wins.

Rich Douglas

 

because there's a sucker born every minute.

I wonder the "sucker" was in each of these cases of graduates of Dept. of Ed. recognized accredited schools: Senator Edward Kennedy, Harvard, received his degree by having someone else do his work; Senator Joe Biden, University of Delaware, plagarized; psychiatrist Margaret Bean-Bayog, implanting false memories of child sexual abuse into a patient causing him to commit suicide.

 

Guys and gals....let's tone down the name-calling and play nice!!

Debate is not only allowed, but encouraged. Let's just not turn this into the cyber equivalent of kindergarten recess.

Thanks,

Bruce

 

An endorsement from Mr. Douglas, about a year ago:

"MIGS isn't a degree mill. MIGS IS a branch of a run-of-the-mill school in Mexico,
approved by the Mexican Ministry of Education. UNESCO has already indicated MIGS will be listed in their next Handbook, which meets GAAP. There is nothing to indicate MIGS is a degree mill. The most accurate analogy I've seen is the Touro situation. How well their degrees will be accepted is yet to be determined, but meeting GAAP and having a solid, structured format for pursuing the degrees will go a long way. The only one calling MIGS a degree mill is a total blowhard (no pun intended) who attaches that label to anything he doesn't like. Where is the uproar over this effort, besides one lonely
jerk? Right. Nowhere."

"You are a lonely, bitter man, at least by what you say on this ng. I somehow think
there are people in your life who think otherwise--another side of you, if you will.
But you don't show it here, so how could anyone tell? And again, we know what you say. But what have you done?"


Credibility of Mr. Douglas? Zilch. If you had the morals, you would know how much impact your post would have since many are tempted to attend MIGS as a result of your poor research skills.

According to Mr. Douglas's post, the "jerk" was meant for Dr. Levicoff. Now, Mr. Douglas calls me a liar, a wessel; a bunch of name calling. Funny, the moderator is probably not going to ban his user ID since this name calling contributes so much to the world of distance learning.

If I was to define hypocritcy, that would mean "saying something to someone but failing to follow it yourself." I can think of one big example: Your confidence as a human resource manager to assert that the majority of employers do not know or do not care about unaccredited degrees.

By the way, my name is Torry, not "Torry." I do not have to tell you who I am to post here do I? What about you, did you put your bio here? I do not hide behind nothing, and I clearly stated I'm a Century University student. So what is your problem?
Just because my degree is not properly accredited, then you have to insult me, that I won't use my real name? Don't be ridiculours!

And if I upsetted you, please accept my apology to you, Mr. Douglas. Let's drop this whole thing. I'm here to learn and discuss relevent issues on higher learning, and not to be insulted.

Torry

 

Please be aware that I am NOT recommending Century University. As I have previously stated, degrees from CU will not enjoy broad recognition, and within academe they will probably have no recognition. If a student gains a certain level of knowledge from such a program, I do think that education in any context (accredited or unaccredited) can be beneficial. However, to use such a degree on one's CV, to gain employment, to gain admission in a RA degree program, or basically in one's professional life is a different matter entirely. IMO, the holder of such a degree will face many obstacles, do much explaining/defending and possibly deal with a potential time bomb.

Russell

 

My friendly warning was meant for all. There really is no reason why opposing sides of an issue can't debate that issue rationally.

BTW Torry, if anything, the moderators of this board have given *more* leeway to those who support unaccredited programs, to avoid any charges of bias.

Bruce

 

I would invite anyone concerned about the tenor of this discussion to review this thread. My first comments were regarding Century, not the poster. But read his/her response and you'll find that he/she made me, not Century, the issue. And the quality of Century's operation and the utility of its degrees are the issues, no?

Have I posted a bio? Not exactly. But people here know who I am and what I've done--meager as both are. I've used my real name and e-mail address, and have been quite candid about where I've worked and gone to school. You will find this to be true of most of the more frequent and longer running posters.

Your identity certainly isn't necessary to discuss the facts. But when I assailed those facts, you shifted the issue to me. I don't care for that and won't sit quietly for it. And one should expect others to disagree with one's opinions, or offer countervailing evidence to one's assertions of fact. These should not be answered with personal attacks, just as they should not be perceived as the same.

I accept your apology only to offer my own.

Rich Douglas

 

Torry,

Welcome to the forum!

I just completed my PhD at Century and, like you, was happy with the program. You will find that there are regular posters that have a "bad taste in their mouths" regarding Century. Century has been 'grandfathered" in the new NM law in that they are not required to be on a RA track. All the other aspects of the law *do* appy to Century. In fact, the information in Century's materials regarding the degree taking a minimum of nine months comes directly from the NM law. The educational law in NM is strong.

What is unfortunate, and may never change is that these regulars that you are corresponding with are not interested in researching or knowing the merits of Century any further. They do not care that there are courses with text books, exams, and research papers. They do not care that there is a dissertation and a masters thesis required. Century left California around the time the law changed and claim ACI acceditation. Therefore, they are dirt.

I do not sit on the forum and defend Century as I see no need. I am glad to see you are pursuing an education. Best of luck.

Colleen Harron-Horiates
PhD Century University, October 2001

 

Since there's so much talk about the New Mexico state law, let's look at it.

Chapter 21, Article 23 of the New Mexico Statutes is the Post-Secondary Education Institution Act. The section on licensure standards mentions career schools repeatedly, but does say "The commission shall promulgate and file ... rules and regulations that ... provide standards for the award of associate, baccalaureate, master's and doctoral degrees." You can find the sections of this act at http://198.187.128.12/newmexico/lpext.dll/Infobase2/10e3/11d90/13123?f=templates&fn=document-frame.htm&2.0

If that link is broken by word wrap, go to http://198.187.128.12/ and click on the HTML link for New Mexico.

I have been unable to find any information on the NMCHE website -- http://www.nmche.org/ -- about more detailed rules or regulations pertaining to degree-granting institutions, the licensure process or protection for students.

NMCHE itself states "licensure with the Commission does not constitute endorsement or approval of an institution by the Commission" and further comments on how licensure differs from accreditation:

Accreditation is obtained from regional or national accrediting agencies recognized by the U.S. Department of Education. Accrediting agencies focus primarily on quality issues. Therefore, accreditation represents an endorsement of an institution's academic programs. Licensure may permit an institution to operate, however, it is not an endorsement of an institution's academic program.

Given this information from NMCHE, it hardly seems that New Mexico state licensure by itself should be taken as an indication of quality.

------------------
Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

Private institutions licensed in New Mexico:

Albuquerque Career Institute
Aquila Travel Academy
The Art Center
The Ayurvedic Institute
Azaliah University
Bolack Total Travel Academy
Business Skills Institute
Century University
CompUSA Computer Training Center
El Valle Technologies
Employment Training Services, Inc.
Freeway Truck Driving School, Inc.
International Schools
International Schools - Roswell
ITT Technical Institute
John Robert Powers School of Albuquerque
The Kemtah Group, Inc.
Maharishi College of Vedic Medicine
Metropolitan College
National Center for Montessori Education
National College of Midwifery, Inc
New Horizons Computer Learning Center - Albuquerque
New Mexico Dealer School
New Mexico Hospitals and Health Systems Association
North American College of Botanical Medicine
PIMA Medical Institute
REDW Tech LLC
RMTDS - Artesia Vocational Training Center
Rocky Mountain Truck Driving School
Southwest Health Career Institute
Trim International Floral School, Ltd.
Trinity Learning Solutions, Inc.
University of Natural Medicine
Westbrook University
Western Truck Driving School


------------------
Kristin Evenson Hirst
DistanceLearn.About.com

 

I don't know about the other regulars, but I would have no serious problems with Century if they dropped the ACI accreditation. I'm concerned, as I think you folks should be, that prospective students might make a mistake and think they're enrolling with a school that holds recognized accreditation.

I'll take your word on Century requiring work for their degrees (you'll notice I've never called them a degree mill), but the whole ACI business bothers me.


Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

Hi, Torry,

I will have to tell you that if your grammar--sentence structure, punctuation, syntax, etc.--are examples of the education you are receiving from Century that you are not doing anything but giving the critics of non-accredited school more fodder. I graduated from Bethany Theological Seminary that has been the butt of much criticism and ridicule on here. Thus, I am not critical of the non-accredited schools but I do think one needs to make sure one is receiving a QUALITY, well-rounded education from such schools if one is going to defend them on there.

Jimmy

 

I think that this thread raises several issues:

1. Should somebody be criticized for associating with a non-accredited American institution of higher education? My answer is not necessarily.

Like Russell, I value education wherever it is obtained. That might be in a library, on the job or in an unrecognized course somewhere. I'm personally interested in several CA-approved schools as a way of pursuing arcane interests at an advanced level.

But if somebody simply purchases a "degree", I don't really consider that education.

2. Must the degrees issued by non-accredited schools be given respect? Again, my answer is not necessarily.

Degrees are certifications that derive their meaning from how others in the community interpret them. That means that a degree has to meet some kind of publicly recognized standard. One means of acheiving that is the peer review system called 'accreditation'. Another means might be successful preparation of candidates for professional licensing such as passing a bar exam.

This doesn't mean that a non-accredited degree is necessarily bad. But it does place the burden of proof squarely on the non-accredited school to demonstrate its credibility in some other way.

3. On a group like this, should non-accredited degree programs be recommended to prospective students? I would say no, except in very special cases.

Regardless of whether any education occurs and whether the degree is any good (however that's defined), there is the crucial issue of how useful a degree will be after graduation. If the great majority of academic institutions don't recognize non-accredited degrees and course credits, and if many employers don't accept them either, that alone is a good reason to seek accredited programs.

If a non-accredited program requires RA-equivalent work, why not do that work in an accredited program and give your career a tremendous boost?

4. So what about Century specifically?

Apparently it is not an out-and-out degree mill. It offers an educational experience of some sort. That probably has some value for some students.

But it has consistently evaded accreditation or similar outside scrutiny. It hasn't really developed a history of recognized excellence in any professional field. Despite granting many doctorates, it doesn't produce much published scholarship. My opinion is that it has never been able (or willing) to demonstrate its credibility.

And Century degrees apparently have much lower acceptance in the academic and professional worlds than degrees with recognized accreditation. So their utility to their holder is probably far less.

Should Century be considered a viable option by the great majority of people reading this group? I'd say no. It's viability seems to me to be restricted to a few special cases.

 

I've never called them a degree mill either. But the ACI connection is just one of four things that bug me about Century. The other three are the tiny faculty vs. the number of graduates, the 9-month doctorate, and the self-credentialed nature of the faculty.

Century operates legally, no doubt. But it is not a university as one is understood to be in the United States.

Rich Douglas

 

I can understand this. But my feeling is that as long as a school is very clear about its lack of accreditation/faculty members/etc., and nobody is misled (not the student and not his or her employer), the administrators of a school should be allowed to do pretty much anything they want, including offering a 9-month doctorate or working through a homegrown faculty. Dishonesty offends me; rigor is more of an aesthetic matter. I wouldn't want a 9-month doctorate for the same reason I wouldn't wear plaid golf shorts in public.

Peace,

------------------
Tom Head
www.tomhead.net

co-author, Bears' Guide to the Best Education Degrees by Distance Learning (Ten Speed Press)
co-author, Get Your IT Degree and Get Ahead (Osborne/McGraw-Hill)

 

I agree with this entirely. I was thinking along the same lines, that the other factors were readily discernable, that seeing their tiny and under-credentialed faculty would be easy; sifting through the nuances and issues surrounding accreditation and state licensure would not.

Rich Douglas

 

Coleen:

Could I ask you several questions about your Ph.D. program at Century?

1. What was the total cost?
2. How long did it take you to complete the Ph.D.?
3. What was the length of your dissertation, i.e., in pages?
4. Does your employer recognize the degree? Did your employer assist in paying for the degree? And will you be able to use the title "Dr." in your profession, and it be respected/recognized by your colleagues?

Thank you,
Russell

 

Kristin,

Does Rocky Mtn. Truck Driving School offer the Ph.D. in Big Rig Operation?

Russell

 

You never know, Tom, earning a Ph.D. in 3-9 months, then graduating in those plaid golf shorts could indeed lead academe into a new era.

Russell

 

Russel,

I already answered these questions on another thread, but I'll give you the abbreviated version:
1. $4600 plus texts and binding fees
2. 22 months
3. approximately 400 pages-5 chapters
4. yes, it is recognized
No, as we have no tuition reimbursement at this time
Yes, I could use doctor. I probably will not on a regular basis as I see no need.

Colleen