A St. Regis Valupack: Buy in Bulk

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by BillDayson, Jul 4, 2003.

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  1. Len

    Len New Member

    Well, Bill, I guess before I start that I should acknowledge that I may not be able to change your mind on all of this. Nor is it the case that SRU is yet absolutely where it wants to be in terms of re-positioning and strategic thinking. If we were, I guess there would be little for us to work on.

    Let's put it in straightforward terms. We're small, independent,
    commercially-minded and prepared to be innovative in what we offer. There's at times a fine line between pitching at what the market most wants and compromising our academic standards. I'm not saying we've never crossed that line in the past, but I am saying that we've made the commitment not to do so in the future. We're ultimately on a learning curve in this business. We
    don't have significant financial endowments behind us, and at times we have to address how the business will stay viable financially and grow from where it is now. That involves us in tough decisions on marketing and strategy that are sometimes controversial and sometimes don't work out as we would hope.

    The comments about substandard work are easy to make, but assessing exactly what this constitutes is a bit tougher. Most of us don't have the experience or expertise to make those decisions. That's what accreditation is there for. By going through a respected accreditation process, we should be able to prove to the world that we're worth something. If you'd commented on what SRU should do in early 2002 to meet your standards of approval, wouldn't you have said something like *gain GAAP-standard accreditation*?

    I do think there's a bit of moving goalposts going on as well. Leave aside the issues of Liberia in conflict; until a couple of months ago it was business as usual in Monrovia with any conflict going on in areas outside the town that people knew to avoid. Suppose I'd asked you about Liberian accreditation in early 2002 - you might well have said something like *Sure, it's fine and GAAP dandy - look at the good schools that Liberia accredits - U of Liberia, Cuttington etc*. Then SRU goes through that process and gets accepted and suddenly Liberian accreditation is no longer OK because SRU's operation was less than wonderful in the past. My point is that the obtaining of accreditation signified the desire to change, and started the process we're still in.

    We'd like the ODA to review its position on SRU. We've written them to that effect, the Liberian Embassy in the US has written them to support us; we've tried most of what we know how. When communications are back in place in Liberia, we'll be glad to provide Alan Contreras with the information he needs in order to take us off the Oregon list that he's requested.

    Watch this space...

    Regards,

    Len.
     
  2. Len

    Len New Member

    Re: Another question for Dr. Len

    Well, Carl, isn't any educational venture about dreams or fantasies? Or at least shouldn't it be, at least in part? If we don't have a vision of the kind of community we want to be, it's hard to convey that vision to third parties. Yes, we're idealists, as perhaps only those in a relatively small community can afford to be. Many of our number have been through mainstream higher education and found it didn't offer what they were seeking. This is our chance to build something different; a new approach to what an educational community is. Perhaps we'll succeed, perhaps we won't, but lifelong friendships have been forged along the way and useful collaborations fostered.

    Forgive me if I detect just a touch of skepticism about your post, Carl :) To avoid repeating myself unnecessarily, may I refer you to my other posts here for my views on the legitimacy of SRU? The issue of energy expended reflects, perhaps, the considerable efforts that are going on to get things off the ground - new courses, new services for alumni, new delivery methods. It's a big job, and a lot of us are very committed to it. I suppose that, as
    a small and personally-focussed institution, SRU actually engenders genuine affection in those who are a part of it. It becomes *their* place, their alma mater.

    The move from graduate to (earned) professor at SRU follows a defined path that basically rests on the preparation of a course methodology in a field that's new to SRU, in full detail - testing papers, course guides, APL equivalences, you name it. Yes, I suppose we are supporters of the idea that if you're committed to our future, you can have a stake in it. We can afford to do that where many bigger institutions need to be much more formal in
    their approach.

    Regards,

    Len.
     
  3. Len

    Len New Member

    Re: Re: For example.... who knew

    Thomas Carper has said that he has never been involved in any way with AGC. His name has been used on the site without his permission and he's tried to get the owners of the site to remove it, without any response so far.

    Regards,
    Len
     
  4. Len

    Len New Member

    Re: a question for len


    Well, it does seem that we're starting to cover old ground again, and so perhaps it's time for me to bid you au revoir for the time being, if not adieu.

    Michael, I think I'll stick with my earlier answer on this. Nothing
    personal, but I don't understand why you would need the opinions of other evaluators in order to validate wat your company does. The information needed to make a decision on SRU is in the open via our website and is further verifiable by phoning the Liberian Embassy in DC. Every time someone
    has posted here or at a.e.d. that so and so has said in principle that they'll accept SRU degrees, this has produced a flurry of emails and telephone calls leading to...wait, they've re-thought their policy. I have no way of knowing that your motivation is what you say it is, but this process has been repeated at least twice and in the interests of our grads, if it is again, that information won't come from me.

    It's been a great pleasure to be among such an informed and entertaining group of people and I hope that you've enjoyed learning a little more about SRU. By the way, the information on the Breyer State website about NBOE accrediting SRU isn't the case. NBOE owns SRU, but doesn't accredit it. It's a minor point, but we'll have a word with Dr Flarey to see if we can clarify this with him.

    I can't resist responding to Dennis's earlier point:

    *I won't be your equal until I send $35 to the Universal Life Church and get
    my fully legal doctorate.*

    Now, Dennis, with one of those and 20 cents, you can buy a cup of coffee. With an SRU degree, on the other hand, you can get into some very nice GAAP and RA grad schools.

    I bid you all a nice day!

    Best regards,

    Len
     
  5. Gus Sainz

    Gus Sainz New Member

    Re: Re: a question for len

    Yeah. It's a shame, however, that none of them are on planet Earth. :rolleyes:
     
  6. Re: Re: Another question for Dr. Len

    Thank you, Len, for your reply. I appreciate your idealism, but I still can't help but feel that there is an element of denial going on among the SRU alum - hoping against hope that SRU is truly above-board in terms of its ethics, and hoping against hope that SRU doesn't just give degrees for a fee payment when there is so much evidence here and even on your own board that in fact that is what takes place...

    The other thing that is hard to believe is the "history" of SRU. Was it really a brick and mortar school in Liberia? What was it called then? Where are the documents and proof that it ever existed? What financial transactions took place when it was purchased and retained as a "paper corporation"? I've been looking at the SRU website for more than a year now, and have seen evolution from Dominica to Liberia, and an ever-changing story of the history of the institution.

    There are too many unanswered, and possibly unanswerable, questions for there not to be skepticism. But please feel free, and welcome, to debate and present your case - that is the essence of a democratic society which most, if not all, educated people advocate.
     
  7. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Hoyer also claims 2 MD degrees from somewhere in Russia. Maybe for some of the fine work involving IUFS.
     
  8. MichaelR

    MichaelR Member

    Re: Re: a question for len



    Not old ground, never properly covered ground.



    Considering that the government is corrupt, how can I trust it? All I wanted to know was there justification for why. Nothing on the website of the school gives me any solid belief that SRU is RA equiv. Out of the 13 schools listed on A.E.D only one of them has contacted me back. And its the one that I doubt has proper recognition from the government, though I haven't fully reasearched that yet either. I am sorry that people have caused you grief in the past, but my reaserch on this matter is soley for myself and no one else. I am sorry that you don't feel that you can trust me.




    I am still confused about the NBOE. Do they have the right to grant accredit schools or is that a function of the government? Every school that mentions the NBOE says the are accredited by the NBOE. I would think that is the governments job.....


    You can also marry people and perform funerals..... And I have yet to have any confirmation from any RA grad school that they accept SRU students...... Hey, can we get a catalog or something? Or a syllabus?
     
  9. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

    Re: Re: Re: a question for len

    Dennis Ruhl wrote:

    > Hoyer also claims 2 MD degrees from somewhere in Russia.
    > Maybe for some of the fine work involving IUFS.


    Isn't this all documented in the Chronicle of Hoyer Education? :D

    MRinger wrote:

    >Considering that the government is corrupt, how can I trust
    > it?
    [...] I am sorry that you don't feel that you can trust me.

    I'm sure the Liberian government would be sorry that you don't feel you can trust it. :D Don't even the rebels trust Moses Blah? :D

    > You can also marry people and perform funerals.

    Doesn't that come of being ordained a minister of the Universal Life Church, rather than receiving a degree from them?
     
  10. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Re: a question for len

    Name one.

    Just one.
     
  11. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Re: Re: Re: a question for len

    It is possible that with an extremely powerful telescope, we might be able to observe a planet where St. Regis degrees are accepted. But I doubt it.

    My doubt is not related to the limits of astronomy, but rather to limits imposed by quantum mechanics.

    It's the "Regisburg Uncertaintity Principle."

    There may be lots of schools out there that will accept St. Regis degrees, but they can never be observed. The act of observation changes their behaivor.

    It's one of life's great mysteries, and we may never understand it. Or perhaps the explanation is quite obvious...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 26, 2003
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: a question for len

    I love the excuse why this can't be revealed. Here's the story with my own slant on it.

    There is apparently a rumor mill campaign by a certain degree mill to spread the rumor (for the gullible's consumption) that some RA schools have mistakenly accepted SRU degrees from someone at some unknown point in time. This is all fine and a great rumor mill campaign. The fun part comes next. The name of this fine RA school can't be made known because the concern is that someone might contact them and tell them that SRU is a degree mill. HAHAHAHA This just kills me. Note that this same rumor is being spread replacing RA school with degree validation service. HAHAHAHA This stuff is better than what a stand-up comic can deliver.
     
  13. MichaelR

    MichaelR Member

    Re: Re: Re: a question for len


    He can't do that, because if he does, you'll go out of your way to discredit SRU. Not that its overly hard to do. Not one shred of evidence any where to be found. And he wonders why we call him a big hairy liar..... What the hay, I'll throw in FAT tooo.... I'm tired of being nice....
     
  14. Len

    Len New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: a question for len

    Hey man, I enjoyed that one - it's as if you have a photo of me atop of your computer - I am indeed a big guy as I play with weights - your psychological abilities astound me! Just how do you do it?

    Good stuff, man!

    Kind regards,

    Len.
     
  15. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: a question for len

    Len, you still haven't answered my very simple question:

    You stated "With an SRU degree, on the other hand, you can get into some very nice GAAP and RA grad schools".

    I then asked you to name one GAAP or RA grad school that admits SRU graduates. I'm not asking for overwhelming evidence, just one single GAAP or RA school that will admit SRU graduates to any of their graduate programs.

    One. As in singular.

    Just one.

    I await your response to my very specific question.
     
  16. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

    OK, there are two separate claims here: (1) many RA schools have accepted SRU grads for further study; and (2) above 10% of RA schools will accept SRU credits in principle.

    As far as I can tell, SRU has never provided any evidence of (1).

    It has provided evidence of (2) (see http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3EB1A178.18938E0B%40ursa.net): a letter from the the University of Connecticut Graduate School dated February 27, 2003, saying, "The only bachelor’s degree from Liberia that we would not consider equivalent is the Bachelor of Law. All other bachelor’s degrees are equivalent and could be considered for admission to the Graduate school." But this "acceptance in principle" was based on a complete lack of information: the admissions director had never heard of Saint Regis University, and was unaware that Liberia had accredited any schools recently.

    Am I missing something?
     
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    So now SRU is being persecuted by the greater academic community. Schools won't accept SRU degrees because then they have to get a share of SRU's persecution! Man, that just <expletive deleted> burns me up. Since you can't tell us the name of the schools that still accept SRU degrees because then they too would be persecuted. Inform me of ONE school that has accepted SRU degrees in the past and would like to accept SRU degrees now but decided against it because of the persecution! Please tell me one school. (Also please note that if you can't tell me one school then because of SRU persecution, I may be inclined to call you a spreader of fallacious information.)

    Have fun,
    Bill

    P.S. Len, thank you much for the laughs. You are very good at degree mill defense (no excellent!) but I know that it's tough trying to defend roaring blatant degree mills. This persecution complex argument is very enjoyable though, kudos. :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2003
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    1. One may purchase a St. Regis degree, including a doctorate, without completing any academic requirements, and may do so immediately.

    2. St. Regis is not recognized as a university by any reputable organization.

    3. St. Regis has been specifically rejected by AACRAO, the IHU, and the ODA.

    4. No regionally accredited university, as a matter of policy, will accept a St. Regis degree for admission.

    Whether or not these things make St. Regis a degree mill is up to you.
     
  19. MichaelR

    MichaelR Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: a question for len

    Glad that I could make you laugh..... Now how about answering questions honestly, and without the smoke screens....
     
  20. MarkIsrael@aol.com

    [email protected] New Member

    Rich Douglas wrote:

    > 1. One may purchase a St. Regis degree, including a
    > doctorate, without completing any academic requirements,


    By "doctorate", do you mean what SRU calls an "honorary doctorate", or what SRU calls an "earned doctorate"?

    If the latter, what is your evidence?
     

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