A Capella Ph.D and a tenure.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Feb 23, 2019.

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  1. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Research, one of many, correlate, within a tenth of a percentage point (for his); seems slightly more than anecdotal. He was comparing her RMP numbers to the unknown student evaluations based on research that shows the RMP numbers are usually very accurate based on research, with many participants, including himself that was closely matched.
     
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Not to get in the way of an argument, but am I the only one who saw the name of this thread and initially thought, "Someone sang their dissertation?"
     
  3. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    Unfortunately, he mentioned research that does not appear to be published and peer reviewed, so it is again regarded as anecdotal at best. Where is the citation for your first claim of RMP being within a tenth of a percent? Am I to blindly accept these unsupported claims?

    The quality of content on this site is at times disappointing. Any absence of a reply is due to my no longer reading this thread.
     
  4. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Same. Acapella and a tenor.....
     
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  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

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  6. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Active Member

    I wouldn't trust any research that tries to compare RMP to student evaluations. As far as I know, I can leave feedback on RMP for any professor at any school without actually attending that school. The same can't be said of student evaluations since only your students would have access to them.
     
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  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    I would also guess that this old saying applies . . . "A happy customer tells 1 person. An unhappy customer tells 10." People who are unhappy seek out ways to tell others while happy people just don't work at it so hard.
     
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  8. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    I don't trust RMP for the same reasons. That doesn't mean that FTF doesn't have some data that supports they are more similar than what all of us might think.

    Regardless, that wasn't the point of the post; it was more that the person who is no longer responding to this thread asked a question "politely trying to impress upon him (FTFaculty) and others my incredulity" that very clearly had already been answered thoroughly. Asking the question after it had already been answered implied to me that he may have missed it but it seems it was simply for dramatic effect, everything else is simply banter.
     
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    We do love to banter. Not to mention badinage and persiflage.
     
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    There are always exceptions; there are always anecdotes. If one wants to estimate one's chances of getting anything, then one of the best things to do is to look at overall statistics. The prestige of the school is partially based on overall research productivity, but individual graduates can ride off of that prestige and land a tenure-track position without having done much. Relevant stats and anecdotes are in this article.

    https://slate.com/human-interest/2015/02/university-hiring-if-you-didn-t-get-your-ph-d-at-an-elite-university-good-luck-finding-an-academic-job.html

    With that said, I remember that dlbb said that LadyExec can't find a job because she graduated from from a for-profit school. I argued that it's because she earned a degree in leadership which is not in high demand.
     
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    too funny.
     
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  12. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    Steve was the one who made that assertion.

    I said the following:
    "As to the op and her dreams, I think much has been said that fully addresses her issues. Being an adjunct instructor is a possibility and she certainly is qualified. She likely would need additional academic work to obtain a full-time position successfully, and previous advice discusses those issues well."
    The primary factor is the educational leadership degree not being relevant. In some posts above that statement, I encouraged her to pursue something more marketable at a master's level. Having it from Argosy doesn't help her case, but the root cause is that it is educational leadership. If she had a more relevant degree, things may have turned out differently.
     
  13. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I was more referring to these posts.
    https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/but-what-if-there-was-an-internationally-accredited-program-that-is-both-flexible-and-affordable.51431/page-3#post-518470
    https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/if-i-could-live-my-life-over-again.53227/page-2#post-518053

    It's no biggie. I just think that what you choose to get your doctorate in matters a lot when it comes to wanting full-time opportunities. To me, there's not much difference between Capella and Argosy other than that Capella is more financially stable. Capella has been accused of prolonging the dissertation process to collect more money.
     
  14. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    Well, I may have said Argosy was "predatory" in one post, but to take that and generalize that that I feel that way about all for profit doctoral programs is a bit much, don't you think? That is simply not the case. I hold Capella in a much, much higher regard than Argosy. You may not, but that is your choice. Clearly, I am in the right here, as demonstrated by the subject of this post, who has been very successful.

    By the way, I said Argosy is predatory partly because they are open admissions, to some extent I assume, and admit any qualified students, putting them in programs such as educational leadership that will may confer very little benefit to them. Does it lead to jobs? Does it lead them to publishing research? Does it lead to profit for Argosy? I think only one of these questions can be answered with yes.

    The fact that she earned a relevant degree is partly why the subject of this post has been successful. I stated this a number of times early on in this thread, so I am not sure why you bring that up as something that should be news to me. ;-)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
  15. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    I'll check with them to see if it was published. I honestly don't know. I assume so, they had a lot of profs taking part in the study.
     
  16. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Sure, of course you can do that. But I can say through 103 RMP reviews going back 10+ years, it correleates very closely to my internal reviews. I'm 4.7 on RMP, about 4.63 internally. The whole point of the research was to see if it was valid, because I have to think if it was rife with fraud, with people leaving random reviews who hadn't even taken the class or gone to the school, it probably wouldn't match up with internal reviews. Anyway, I'm not the only one who has noticed that RMP and internal reviews often match up pretty well.

    And I still contend that the average provost's office is perhaps the worst place to find out if someone is a great lecturer and beloved professor. Can anyone tell me how they'd know this? Typically a provost's office isn't looking at that student reviews, to my knowledge, they're looking at how your chair reviews your teaching. And your chair typically never comes by the class (I've had four different chairs in 10.5 years, none of them has set one foot in my classroom for one second), they come up with a rating based either upon what you put in your annual report about the new and innovative teaching methods you employ (which might make things worse and not improve jack squat and in any event are the rough equivalent of a corporate annual report--that is, pure puffery and manure), or whether or not (as in my particular case) a tenured full professor happens to decide they hate you because they're going through a major midlife crisis and have lost their minds and are making your chair's life a living hell and so your chair, scared of the tenured full prof who's buddy buddy with the dean, starts trashing your teaching ratings utterly without regard to the quality of your teaching, which they've never seen and which they only have edidence of based on student reviews, which are awesome, but which they ignore.

    OK, quite a rant, but trust one who sees the sausage made--provost's offices don't know CRAP.
     
  17. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Argosy and Capella's admissions standards are the same. They require a regionally accredited bachelor's or master's degree and a minimum GPA. Neither school is competitive; they accept anyone who meets the minimum requirements. Capella offers an EdD in Educational Leadership, which is not much different than an EdD in Organizational Leadership. The only major difference between the two schools is that Argosy has brick and mortar campuses, and some of their sites have APA-accredited psychology programs. Capella has never had APA accreditation. Argosy has been sued for deceptive practices; Capella is currently being sued for deceptive practices. They pretty much look the same to me.

    I don't see how this thread proves that Capella is better. I'm sure there are people with Argosy degrees who have obtained tenure-track positions and published articles.
     
  18. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    Yeah, why not? That was the point of the research. Far as I know, it showed there was a legit correlation. And I know my info is anecdotal, but dang, it encompassed 103 RMP reviews lining up within 7/100ths of my average of thousands of internal reviews. Here are some articles, there've been a number of articles on this subject. I'm going to try and look into whether the article put together by some researchers at my university got published.

    http://web.eecs.umich.edu/~mihalcea/papers/azab.socinfo16.pdf
    https://www.chronicle.com/article/Researchers-Rate/129820
    https://immagic.com/eLibrary/ARCHIVES/GENERAL/JOURNALS/A080800O.pdf
     
  19. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

  20. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    Sorry to hear things are bad there. Do not read into my comments as an attack on you, but just an argument against reading too much into RMP. I would point out that just because your school is deficient in that respect doesn't mean all are.

    If your reviews were so high, did you ever consider that you may fall into a category where you are well-liked by students and teach well? Thus, nobody would have a need to tank your RMP. Someone who is more average in teaching ability could be attacked by students for petty reasons repeatedly on that site, or for illegitimate reasons, such as racial profiling, misogyny, homophobia, able-ism, or maybe they failed them, etc. Some points to consider: Some professors who are viewed as more attractive score higher on RMP Did you know faculty have been fired for posting inappropriate content about peers on RMP? Some faculty may get one to a few ratings on RMP a semester, if even that, whereas in student evaluations the completion rate would be far higher, particularly if given in class and not optional. So suggesting that one or two surveys a semester by random individuals, who may not be students, who could be the same students posting repeatedly, is going to carry the same weight as something administered to the whole class, where all students have an opportunity to respond--those who are happy, upset, as well as those who could care less. I have seen some RMP where it is quite obvious a disgruntled person has posted repeatedly (look at writing style, content, posting repeatedly in small time frame)? RMP is hardly scientific. It can maybe give insights into students who want to select a course, but the key word here is "maybe." People will view their peers ratings, some may trash them, and some may post positive comments about themselves. The point is...don't read too much into RMP. It could be very accurate, as in your case, as I am sure you probably are a great teacher, but it could also be completely off. Sometimes there is no way to know.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019

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