If I could live my life over again...

Discussion in 'Online & DL Teaching' started by LadyExecutive, Dec 13, 2018.

  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That totally discounts the huge opportunity cost of time, not to mention how expensive that would be.

    The closest thing to a second doctorate I would even consider in that situation is to take 18 semester-hours in a new discipline to be academically qualified to teach it, probably in something like Finance.
    LadyExecutive likes this.
  2. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    True, anything we ever do, including this post, involves opportunity cost (I'm taking a break from the continuing professional ed seminar I'm preparing to post this, and it's probably a break I shouldn't take because it's a lengthy talk on the subtleties of LLC and S corp taxation, which I'll be presenting to room full of practitioner professionals, and which I really don't have a very firm grasp upon yet--yikes!).

    It's kind of presumed that she'll factor her time and money costs in there. Have to think she will. I was just suggesting that if she really wants to teach in academia, she likely will have to make those sacrifices, and she shouldn't use the "too old" excuse. Only she can decide if it's worth the cost. But I never have really gotten the line people use when they do a for-profit or obscure doctorate "I'm just doing this so I can adjunct." I wonder what magificence they think is involved in getting paid $1500 or so to teach some course, having no campus resources, often driving long distances to do it, undergoing anxiety and scrambling to get it all done. I used to drive a 110 mile round trip to teach one class, used to head out 39 miles one way to teach another that started at 6pm that didn't conclude until 10, used to get up to teach a dual enrollment class that started at 7am...or was it 7:30--can't remember, used to teach online classes with huge student enrollments and just dealing with all the students who sent me frantic emails and couldn't figure out the tech, or had the course site crash on them during the exam, and who always expected an answer to their emails NOW, was enough to make me nuts, used to teach classes where I was staying one worried chapter ahead of the students because I scarcely understood what I was teaching (but I was so desperate for the bucks at the time and so worried they'd stop asking if I turned the dean down, I always said "yes"--and then hoped to goodness no one saw through to my incompetence). I taught at one time for four different schools, with no benefits, making under $30K a year, and trying to support a family by scraping together $1500 here, $1000 there, burning through a lot of my money in gas, because the last thing the school's going to do is pay an adjuct mileage reimbursement expenses.

    Yeah, yeah, these people willing to sweat out a four to six year degree at a cost of tens of thousands while working full time all so they can teach a class or two on the side and be an underpaid fungible nonentity for some for-profit or community college somewhere. Heck, you have a good point, Steve.
  3. scaredrain

    scaredrain Member

    Has the op tried applying to smaller colleges and universities? I have not faced the same issues as the op with my Ed.D from Capella University. In fact I just became the VP/Dean of Graduate Studies, Online and Adult learning at my institution. My institution is a liberal arts college that has expanded tremendously and is about to offer our first Ph.D. online in Fall 2019 (pending SACS approval).

    It also helps if your masters are in the field you wish to become a professor in. If this is the case, a Ph.D. will be a bonus. My suggestion is to become an adjunct at one of these universities and when a full time opening becomes available, apply and see how it goes. Or you can try smaller universities and colleges.
  4. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The OP should be glad it wasn't a (hideously) more expensive while potentially equally useless J.D.
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Only if you're a redneck, Steve. Doctors like you should call it a coprophagic grin! Even I know that. From an old post in another galaxy:

    "Aw shucks," said redneck Johann
    With a coprophagic grin -
    "I knew you two wuz 'stirrers'
    Right when y'all came in." :)
  6. FTFaculty

    FTFaculty Well-Known Member

    This is likely more about you and your abilities than the degree.
  7. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I was reading the wiki on Argosy University earlier, and saw a reference to a PBS Frontline special on the for-profits. Fun viewing:

    The program, which was produced in 2010, mentions both Argosy and Dream Center (which ultimately took over Argosy some eight years later), as well as many of the "usual suspects" discussed here on DI.
  8. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    Steve, it is hard to give credibility to many of the posters who regularly promote some of those "usual suspects" and other various strange places, when largely there are vastly superior alternatives that don't cause graduates such issues. I am speaking broadly, of all levels of education.

    As to the op and her dreams, I think much has been said that fully addresses her issues. Being an adjunct instructor is a possibility and she certainly is qualified. She likely would need additional academic work to obtain a full-time position successfully, and previous advise discusses those issues well.
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This video makes look students as victims. Most students know what they are getting into, most students chose schools like Argosy because they don't ask for GMAT, courses are flexible (for not saying easy), you can graduate fast, you can do it from home, courses are not as demanding, etc, etc, etc. A student has the option to write a GMAT and get a scholarship to go to a better school but they settle for the for profit because it is convenient.

    This does not mean that Argosy is a bad school, but it means that if the student is not motivated enough, degree or no degree is not going to make a difference. For those that chose Argosy because have a family, full time job, little time the degree works well because they have the motivation and the intention to use this degree to better themselves while others they are just hoping that the degree would do the job that they are not willing to do.

    I don't buy this sad story, if you want to do something with an Argosy, Capella, UoP or any for profit degree, you can use it if you are motivated and have the intention to do it but if you were already in a poor professional path and you hope that the degree would be a game changes, you might be making the wrong choice.
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I do not recall ever using "NIFI" to describe your degree; not sure it would even fit. What I DID find objectionable is how you trash other people's accomplishments when your own are vulnerable to the very same sort of snobbery. Reality check, to use your own turn of phrase.

    You know, many on this forum still remember how you jumped on a similar claim by Douglas, and stayed on it for weeks. You possess exactly the same degree as he has (I mean, his first) - in Individualized Studies, and it is not "subject specific". Ironically, EdD in Leadership is, technically, subject-specific - the subject being "Leadership". Which is, granted, oversold to the point of being a "one-size-fits-all", but at least has more of a body of knowledge (BOK) that "Individualized Studies" does.

    RA doctorate is an accomplishment enough (especially when a person has intellect and discipline enough to do it independently, so there should be no need to laugh and "tap dance" (what?) at the expense of others to lift yourself up. I wonder what possess you to do it for all these years. LadyExecutive can not be characterized as a degree mill promoter, so there's no justifying your tone.[/QUOTE]
    sanantone likes this.
  11. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I'm a traditionalist? Haha! Now, that's funny. I have four undergraduate degrees and almost two master's degrees earned online (I'll be finishing my second one later this year). Never have I trashed Union because it's low-residency. I regularly promote 100% online programs; they're just at better schools, for the most part.
    Phdtobe likes this.
  12. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    You are my new heroine!
  13. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Huh? Stan, you're replying to a five-week old post here. Sounds like you need to get a life.

    You also need to get your facts correct. First, my doctorate is subject specific. It was earned several years before Rich completed his, and by the time he did they had started to use the new language. But there's nothing "individualized" about that language - the correct term is interdisciplinary, as it appears on the front page of Rich's dissertation (which, by the way, is quite good). As for "BOK," to me that's simply the name of the Munchkin character in the musical Wicked.

    As for Lady Executive, if you read my initial comments in this thread, I cut L.E. quite a bit of slack - no one can read her account and not feel for what she has gone through. But I laugh at everyone else who goes through an Ed.D. program in leadership today. Remember, L.E. earned her degree in 2012, before it was one-size-fits-all. Granted, she was an early victim of the phenomenon I've described. But anyone who does it today is merely victimizing themselves.

    Meanwhile, the weather being what it is, you've disturbed my hibernation. (Hell, being in Canada, you should be hibernating.) So I'm going back to it now . . .
  14. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    When Steve L. is in the house life is great! Let me make a naive assumption. All RA doctorates has to meet at least a minimum standard, otherwise it is not RA. Then, I think we are being petty about where on that continuum of quality ones doctorate is situated once it is not below the minimum standard of RA. We do a disservice to members, by popooing their blood, sweat, and tears in earning an accredit doctorate.
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    There is also a risk factor with the opportunity cost. LadyExecutive most likely did her research and made a decision with the information that was available to her at the time the decision was made. Maybe her options were limited due to family circumstances and other problems. The reality is that an EdD from a low tier school would have been fine in 1998 when the market for academics was strong and all you needed was an accredited doctorate. We have faculty with History degrees teaching management in my school because back in the 80s there were no PhDs in Management available so the PhDs in History with some Management experience were getting jobs as Management professors.

    You might want do a second doctorate in Finance today when the market for finance professors is strong and then go and get a second doctorate from another low tier school (let's say Union) today. Five years from now, the market for professors in Finance might not be so strong due to automation and reduction of jobs in the field and the person with the PhD in Finance from Union now is competing with people with PhDs in Finance from ranked AACSB accredited schools for the same low paid adjunct jobs so then the person would come here and say that he or she should have completed a PhD at a ranked school if he or she had to do it again.

    I completed a DBA from a low ranked Australian school, I was lucky to get a permanent position with this one back in 2006 but now it would be very difficult with people with PhDs from MIT and other top schools competing for jobs that before would not even care to apply.

    Life changes and there is a risk in every decision. The best she can do is move on with her life and find an alternative career path to a faculty member, maybe trainer or HR consultant but just move on with her life.
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Steve, you got your degree when Union allowed students to designate their programs "subject specific" - in any subject, in the same program. To insist this is in any substantial way different from the program Rich completed is disingenuous - because it is the same exact program. If anything, Union started labelling its degrees slightly more accurately - so you can't get a degree in "Law" from a place that is not a law school.

    Rich's dissertation is both good and closely related to "Higher Education", a specialization he claims. I didn't read yours. All I can reasonably safely assume is that it is of sufficient doctoral quality.

    They still have RA doctorates - just like you. By splitting hairs you only invite the same treatment on yourself.

    What I think we can agree on is that a typical cookie-cutter EdD Leadership program (Especially one from Argosy, which is still essentially a for-profit) is not the best choice for someone aspiring to teach. It is either preparation for admin roles or a business card confectionary - and both can be justified and rational choices for some students

    Dude, this one is both funny and accurate. I wished to hibernate a few times last week. This weather is not intended for humans.
    Johann likes this.
  17. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I think the OP would be happy with an adjunct career based on her comments. The EdD from Argosy might have been a good option for adjunct work back in 2000 but it is not longer the case. I lost all my online adjunct contracts due to low enrollments at for profits, there is a shift in the market due to the availability of online programs at better schools so few people are opting for degrees from for profits. Getting an adjunct job at a tradition school offering an online program is more challenging due to unions, local people being preferred. bias against online doctorates, etc, etc.

    I have applied to online teaching jobs for the last 3 to 4 years with no much luck in spite of many years of online teaching experience. It is a lot more difficult now than before for sure so the OP is just experiencing the reality of the job market that is saturated due to the proliferation of online doctorates.
  18. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Oooo, I like that term. Maybe I'll get some candy someday.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Of course it isn't. This is Canada, eh? Früzenshite is the norm for about 5 months of the year. So, as a non-human, I usually do OK. I used to rely on liquor-store antifreeze, but I quit all that 14-15 years ago. But hey, is it not just as cold in Ukraine, Stanislav? I figured you'd be used to it - most Ukrainians seem to adapt well. We Canadians are said to be like vichyssoise - cold, half-French and difficult to stir.
  20. Phdtobe

    Phdtobe Well-Known Member

    I went back over the OP, and this time I can feel the pain by Executive Lady. RA is the gold standard, so Agorsy is fine but institutions like Argosy comes with known caveats. We should especially be transparent when we recommend something less than RA.

Share This Page