600 € for a PhD in Spanish?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by datby98, Jan 15, 2023.

  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    We were thinking about the same thing and about the same time. I believe that 1500 euros is already reasonable enough for a propio degree that is earned and not purchased. If someone is going to supervise that thesis and doctorate, they should be paid something reasonable to do this so I don't see how you can get a 600 euros doctorate with some meaningful dissertation or at the very least professional project.
    Johann and Rachel83az like this.
  2. AsianStew

    AsianStew Moderator Staff Member

    Oh snap! Thanks for letting me know... I should have realized, for some reason I didn't check and thought it was with Educamix and get more details from them, I was going to research them a bit further... I'll do more investigative work before I decide what route to go.

    Update: The DBA/PHD option from San Miguel seems the cheapest option that is 'recognized' from the site. The rest in that price range are all non-accredited or worse, degree mills! I didn't see any wording for San Miguel in the links, but the info video does indicate that...

    OK, nevermind, there is a brief note of Earlybird: Course subsidized by Gala Social Action.
    Near the bottom, it shows this! Students will also be able to obtain the double degree from the San Miguel University.
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2023
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  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You don't see... I don't see - and I don't think anyone SHOULD.

    I think, with Cambridge International, this thread may very well have jumped the shark. Well, at least it isn't a PhD in Terrorism from some fanatic outfit. :( I also see that a linked thread about Cambridge International U. turned up the Civil Air Patrol email address of Rev. Dr. Academician Robert Ray Hill, long time purveyor of um - various unaccredited opportunities. I guess he was helping Cambridge International U. out. I believe he used to post here as rayray1212 and a couple of other names. He was at one time, U.S. V.P. of WIDU - World Information Distributed University - a Belgian entity. We have some threads on that one.

    Last I heard, in addition to Rev. Dr. Academician titles, he is now a Bishop. His see is in the Philippines. He gets around, especially for a guy of advanced years. Much better-travelled than yours truly. Here's another picture of him - he's shown as a mentor at Amity College Florida. I have not searched any info on this school. https://amitycollege.education/index.php/about/officers-and-mentors
    datby98 and Dustin like this.
  4. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the interesting rabbit hole!
  5. AsianStew

    AsianStew Moderator Staff Member

    Here's the reply I got for the inquiry I sent in earlier about the CUE/San Miguel "Excellent Program DBA". BTW, I used google translate...


    By taking this training program you will be fully prepared to access the labor market, significantly expanding your knowledge with training of the highest quality.

    In the attached document, we provide you with all the detailed information about the requested course.

    The price of this training is the one that appears in said attachment. It is currently SUBSIDIZED, reducing its cost to only €1,500.

    The training offered by the European University Campus is aimed at all types of students and professionals. Both in online training from any device and place, and face-to-face training in its new center, CUE stands out for its quality programming and facilities, achieving a training process that satisfies the aspirations of its students. The treatment and personalized attention given by the professors to each student make Campus Universitario Europeo a close and humane Business School.

    European University Campus collaborates with different universities, foundations and prestigious entities from all over the world to make their training accessible to any student regardless of their geographical, economic or social situation, through social action programs and open grants throughout the year.

    European University Campus has been certified by the IAO as well as the EEE (European Excellence Education), entities that ensure international educational quality. Leaders in e-learning and distance training in Europe, Campus Universitario Europeo is in the TOP 10 of the best Spanish-speaking Online Business Schools.

    To request admission to this training and begin the enrollment procedures, you must send us the completed and signed enrollment form and the explicit consent attached to this email, along with a copy of the qualifications required in the PDF.

    Awaiting your news, and hoping that you become part of our student body,

    Best regards.
  6. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I think Excellent DBA is an overstatement. This is similar to the ENEB and Isabel 1 deal. Your doctorate is not going to be officially recognized in Mexico but the degree would probably state that San Miguel is accredited by the minister of education in Mexico.
    I think also San Miguel is a virtual school in Mexico so we are not getting close to a top school here but at least it is not a scam or a doctrinal or ethereal doctorate from a religious florida school.
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    When I got started in this stuff in the mid-'70s, there were a few really solid unaccredited schools that looked like they'd stick around. Union, Walden, Clayton, Nova, and a couple in California. Then there were solid unaccredited schools that looked to remain unaccredited. These included California Pacific, Columbia Pacific, and California Coast. Then there were some unaccredited operations cranking out degrees with less-than-wonderful processes, including Pacific Western, Kennedy-Western, CULA, and Kensington. Finally, there were stone-cold diploma mills operating with California Authorization, including Central California, Southland, Columbia State, California Christian, and many, many others.

    Almost all of that has gone away. I blame the internet. It used to be that you had to have a physical presence somewhere to receive payments. Now you just need a place to run your printing operations and to send out the diplomas and transcripts. In other words, diploma mills have been off-shored!

    As for on-the-edge operations, legitimate unaccredited schools have almost disappeared. I think this is because a) diploma mills now operate largely in the ether and b) legitimate schools have, for the most part, been able to access recognized accreditation. So, the edgy schools like International College are gone, but the demand remains. It would appear that demand is being met by schools offering propio degrees, as well as schools operating legally but without proper national recognition. Legal? Sure. Legit? Sorta. Sufficient? Well, that's an individual matter, isn't it?
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  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    The IAO is a straight-up accreditation mill. It has accredited well over 1000 "schools." The Axact fraudulent degree empire in Pakistan has used their "Accreditation" services on some of its monstrosities. :( ¡Huye! (Run!)
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2023
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  9. datby98

    datby98 Active Member

  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Looked it over and read for for maybe 4-5 min. Looked OK to this non-Doctor. Then I discovered - parts of this appear piecemeal elsewhere. Plagiarism? I Googled the first sentence. It appears here, on a blog:

    The blog article is by Marta Guerri - a Master's grad in Psych - I forget the Uni.
    The Doctoral Candidate who wrote the diss. for Campus Universitario Europeo was Zoraida Axtle Serrano.

    I didn't check who wrote it first - but I don't like the vibe I'm getting... :(
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2023
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  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    An accredited PhD normally requires a review panel with experts in the field, defense, etc. 1500 euros is not really a lot. No professor who is a world expert would take a job that probably pays 500 euros to supervise a student.

    I believe these programs like any non accredited program can provide a valuable educational experience but with limitations. It is quite evident that prospect students are not interested in becoming scholars at top universities but just are looking for an affordable program that can give them a credential that will not put you into shame or at least can be listed in a CV. Here the market is business professionals that just want to put "DBA Universidad de San Miguel", the prospect employer just checks that is not a purchased degree and that it is the end of it. As the graduate is not going to apply to be a tenure professor job, nobody is going to check the dissertation and verify its originality, research methodology, etc.
    For your assessment to be valid, we would need to run a plagiarism report with something like turnitin and verify its originality. Then we would need to send it to 3 experts in the field so we can evaluate the quality. Just running it on the internet and find some potential sources wouldn't be enough to trash it, however, i wouldn't expect it to be so strong either given the fact that the person supervising the work is probably getting paid very little money.
    You get what you pay for, I would prefer San Miguel over Cambridge International just because the latter is all over the internet as a scam but San miguel is a virtual university in Mexico with no ranking and the DBA is not recognized in Mexico so it is what it is.
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yeah - it is what it is --- nothing. If it's not recognized in its own country -- then it can't be, anywhere else. We had a situation a while back where an otherwise sound Polish University ( Dąbrowa Górnicza) was pumping out DBAs - degrees not recognized in Polish academia. I believe that was put a stop to by authorities. This is exactly the same thing - in Mexico.

    As far as the stuff in the sample PhD diss. goes - I'm pretty sure I can convincingly suss out what's going on -- or not going on, given a little time. I'll report back, with what I find - or don't. We'll see what everybody thinks, then, based on that. I'll let people make up their own minds whether or not something is hinky with the dissertation - and if the degree is worth 1500 euro.
    Dustin likes this.
  13. Johann766

    Johann766 Active Member

    Regarding the "IAO" accreditation I wouldn´t be too hard on San Miguel. I guess they thought they could upgrade their mexcian state recognition with some non-sense private accreditation label. Guess that´s just a bad marketing move, maybe they didn´t put much thought into it.

    Regarding the Plagiarism - Great find really :D :D :D It´s just the very first sentense of the thesis but still.

    And: "the DBA is not recognized in Mexico so it is what it is." -> you can say the same about any propio degree.
    The Polish University still works with OUS.
  14. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    At least in Spain, propios are recognized by the education law that authorizes them, they're just not registered with the Spanish government like official degrees are.
  15. Johann766

    Johann766 Active Member

    University own degree programmes are a common feature among many university systems across Europe and Latin America and offered by thousands of universities. A university own degree programme is offered by the university sui-generis and does not require a particular programme accreditation – RVOE in Mexico. The programme is offered and the degree is awarded in accordance with Article 59 of the General Law of Education without RVOE.


    Guess propios have some kind of legal basis in Mexico too..
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes they do. Article 59 as you said. I think I was the one who had to look it up. We covered this a while back in another thread. I think the trouble with Azteca is with awarding Doctorates, period - I think there's a Ministry restriction there. Propio or not. I know one person figured his Azteca Doctorate might not fly, propio or otherwise, but it was also double-nutcrackered by Universidad Central de Nicaragua, which had (or was believed to have) authority to award doctorates - or was it the other way around? Costaraguan roads are full of potholes. ¡Cuidado! ¡Peligro adelante! (Caution! Danger ahead!)

    Last edited: Jan 21, 2023
  17. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    I've seen Article 59 cited quite a few times, almost exclusively on Azteca-affiliated sites. I think they're a bit out of date though as it only appears in the now defunct 2016 version of the General Law of Education:

    Article 59.- The private individuals who provide services by which studies are imparted without official recognition of validity [RVOE], shall mention it in their corresponding documentation and publicity.

    In the case of initial education, they shall also have personnel that accredits the adequate preparation to provide education; have facilities and other personnel that satisfy the hygienic, safety, pedagogical and accessibility conditions determined by the educational authority, in accordance with the terms indicated in the applicable provisions; comply with the requirements referred to in Article 21; submit the corresponding evaluations, in accordance with the provisions of this Law and other corresponding provisions derived within the framework of the National Educational Evaluation System, and take the measures referred to in Article 42, as well as facilitate the inspection and surveillance of the competent authorities.​

    In the 2019 & 2021 versions, this was shortened significantly to the following:

    Article 150. Private individuals who provide services through which studies are imparted without official recognition of validity, shall mention it in their corresponding documentation and publicity.​

    I'm not a lawyer in Mexico nor any other country, so I'm not sure if Azteca and other universities fall under the legal category of particulares (often translated as private individuals). It does sound like Mexico does recognize something akin to own degrees though, even if not explicitly named such in their General Law of Education.
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Didn't realize the version I read was outdated. It was only a few months back and what I read said specifically that approved Universities may offer degree programs that did not have RVOE, as "own title."

    That's all I was looking for at the time - as someone had said no propios in Mexico and a bunch of us disagreed. I'm going back to see if it was actually Sec. 56 or another in the 50-range.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

  20. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    The DBA discussed here for $1500 seems to be a good path to take for those with a similar budget and continuing educational interest who have or are planning to complete an Isabel I/ENEB degree. There has been a recent discovery with ENEB receiving full recognition of an accredited Masters evaluation with them listing Isabel I from WES Canada for employment and immigration purposes according to the sister forum.
    LearningAddict likes this.

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