Mccain/Palin?

One thing we do not know is who was asked to be the running mates, by both major candidates, and refused (or were rejected after being screened). Were Palin and Biden first choices or tenth choices? Maybe there are better opportunities in the next administration than VP, and that have been promised to supporters (for example could being Secretary of State or National Security Advisor be an equally good stepping stone to President at a future date?).

 

If Obama is smart, he knows his life is in danger if he picks Hillary for VP and they win.

 

Perhaps. It's like a scorpion catching a ride on the back of a wolf.


"The scorpion asks a wolf to take him across a river on his back. The wolf is reluctant at first but the scorpion convinces the wolf that he won't sting him because they would both die. Halfway across the river, the scorpion stings him. As they both sink the wolf asks the scorpion why did he sting him and the scorpion said, 'I couldn't help myself. It's my nature'."

http://www.tv.com/star-trek-voyager/scorpion-1/episode/10707/summary.html

 

Palin Booed

Palin should focus on her executive experience and family values. Clinton supporters are not used to her yet. The animal may growl at you the first time, but if you carefully and gradually nurture the creature, it may approach you in time and wag its tail in approval. Repeating hillary clinton is like slapping the animal in the face. It will bite because of the pain that was felt.

"In contrast with the mild reception that greeted her comments at the Ohio event, when Palin praised Clinton here for showing “determination and grace in her presidential campaign,” the Alaska governor was met with a noisy mix of boos, groans and grumbles around the minor league ballpark where the “Road to the Convention Rally” was held.

Palin quickly recovered, promising the audience that female candidates weren’t yet finished, and that she and McCain were on their way to victory in November."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/08/30/palin-booed-for-mentioning-hillary-clinton/#comments

 

Having a family doesn't give one "family values," whatever those are. (Why do Republicans think their's is the only way it is defined, anyway?)

Executive experience? Six years as a part-time mayor of a 8,500-person hamlet, followed by 18 months as governor of a state with a population the size of a modest city. (A very modest city.)

Do people think she's really ready to serve as the President? You may or may not like Biden, but that question is not one that needs answering.

And what about all the very well qualified Republicans that got passed over? Palin is more qualified than all of them? She isn't more qualified than any of them.

And to think I was actually worried about Pawlenty, Hutchinson, Fiorina, Romney, or Lieberman. (Actually, I was most worried about Tom Ridge, but I guess he was't a very experienced "hockey mom.")

Amazing.

 

Well Rich, I'll take 18 months experience as a governor over 173 days experience as a US Senator (Obama).

And I must say, your condescending reference to Palin as a "hockey mom" is a bit misogynist to me.

 

Really? That term regarding Palin is in serious play throughout the world--I didn't coin it. Your beef is with a much bigger crowd than little ol' me. In fact she has used the term to descirbe herself. You should scold her mysogony before you move on to others.

And since you decided to throw one at me, let me return the favor: I find the twisting to even rationalize one bit the nomination of this incredibly underqualified former part-time mayor of a hamlet hypocritical and stupid. (Not you, of course, just people who do what you're doing. You called what I said "mysoginistic," which turns out to be utterly wrong, but didn't call me a mysoginist. I'm calling what you're doing inept and hypocritical, but would never imply that you are either.)

And get your facts right. Obama is a sitting U.S. Senator, and has been since before the hockey mom became governor. Also, he was in the Illinois State Senate while she was a part-time mayor of a tiny hamlet. And how did SHE do at Harvard Law? Oh, yeah, sorry. But she did come in second for Miss Alaska, something in which Barack never dared to enter. (What is it with McCain and beauty queens? He leaves his wife for one and his principles for another!)

Are these people in such denial that they'll defend McCain's choice no matter what? Or that they'll defend even the choice of McCain himself as the candidate? Does winning an election mean that much that they would support two people who belie so much what the Republican Party claims it is all about?

I am laughing about this incredibly inept selection, but it is the contortions being attempted to rationalize it that is the best. Is there a chiropractor in the house?

Finally, if you think for one minute I'm going to tolerate your condescension towards me, you've got another thing coming. You have a moderator's role. The term "moderate" is the root of it. Step from it with name-calling towards another participant on this board, expect to get the same in return.

Republicans everywhere should be insulted. Hey, they picked McCain, so that's their fault. But Palin? He did that to them, and they should be mad about it. But that would hurt the ol' bottom line, wouldn't it?

 

Corrected copy: (Editor wouldn't accept these changes. I gotta learn to spell "misogynist if I'm going to be one!)

Really? That term regarding Palin is in serious play throughout the world--I didn't coin it. Your beef is with a much bigger crowd than little ol' me. In fact she has used the term to descirbe herself. You should scold her misogyny before you move on to others.

And since you decided to throw one at me, let me return the favor: I find the twisting to even rationalize one bit the nomination of this incredibly underqualified former part-time mayor of a hamlet hypocritical and stupid. (Not you, of course, just people who do what you're doing. You called what I said "misogynistic," which turns out to be utterly wrong, but didn't call me a misogynist. I'm calling what you're doing inept and hypocritical, but would never imply that you are actually either. I know you're not.)

And get your facts right. Obama is a sitting U.S. Senator, and has been since before the hockey mom became governor. Also, he was in the Illinois State Senate while she was a part-time mayor of a tiny hamlet. And how did SHE do at Harvard Law? Oh, yeah, sorry. But she did come in second for Miss Alaska, something in which Barack never dared to enter. (What is it with McCain and beauty queens? He leaves his wife for one and his principles for another!)

Are these people in such denial that they'll defend McCain's choice no matter what? Or that they'll defend even the choice of McCain himself as the candidate? Does winning an election mean that much that they would support two people who belie so much what the Republican Party claims it is all about?

I am laughing about this incredibly inept selection, but it the contortions being attempted to rationalize it are the best. Is there a chiropractor in the house?

Finally, if you think for one minute I'm going to tolerate your condescension towards me, you've got another thing coming. You have a moderator's role. The term "moderate" is the root of it. Step from it with name-calling towards another participant on this board, expect to get the same in return.

Republicans everywhere should be insulted. Hey, they picked McCain, so that's their fault. But Palin? He did that to them, and they should be mad about it. But that would hurt the ol' bottom line, wouldn't it?

 

Bruce: "Well Rich, I'll take 18 months experience as a governor over 173 days experience as a US Senator (Obama)."

How about 1,317 days as a US Senator (the correct number)?

Incidentally, didn't Reagan have roughly zero days of business, management, or executive experience at the time he was elected governor of California? (Yes, he was the president of a union, largely a figurehead position.)

 

To clarify she does refer to herself as a Hockey Mom. Some of her enviromental policies are pretty scary, and her pro life stance does not work for everyone.

 

Palin

The media is starting to sink their teeth

"Gov. Sarah Palin was for the so-called infamous "Bridge to Nowhere" before she was against it, a change of position the GOP vice presidential running mate conveniently ignored Saturday when she bragged about telling Congress "thanks but no thanks" to the pork barrel project. "

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080831/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_bridge_to_nowhere;_ylt=Ash4dpP94p7CU92sPcwgO6Fh24cA

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Here is some interesting info about Palin's national security experience in alaska.

"As governor of Alaska, Palin is briefed on highly classified military issues, homeland security, and counterterrorism. Her exposure to classified material may rival even Biden's.

She's also the commander in chief of the Alaska State Defense Force (ASDF), a federally recognized militia incorporated into Homeland Security's counterterrorism plans.

Palin is privy to military and intelligence secrets that are vital to the entire country's defense. Given Alaska's proximity to Russia, she may have security clearances we don't even know about."

http://www.blackfive.net/main/2008/08/commanding-the.html

The key term here is russia. Could Russia be a central issue in the Mccain/Palin Administration?

 

I'm done with this thread. Palin's selection is indefensible, and there's no sense in arguing that. As for her lack of qualifications, the abuse of power investigation, the lack of accurate facts in this thread, it really doesn't matter. Her selection is self-defeating. Democrats should be rejoicing in this absurdity, and Republicans should be steaming mad.

Palin's selection is so utterly clear, so utterly lacking nuance, controversy, or even very much to talk about at all, that it's not worth doing so. Good luck, Republicans. You can have her.

 

Summary of Obama's experience

Illinois State Senate: January 8, 1997 – November 4, 2004

US Senate: Sworn in January 4, 2005 - Roughly 3 1/2 years in the US Senate

Total 11 1/2 years of experience serving in the legislature

- Obama taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School for twelve years, as a Lecturer for four years (1992–1996), and as a Senior Lecturer for eight years (1996–2004)

- In 1993 Obama joined Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland, a 12-attorney law firm specializing in civil rights litigation and neighborhood economic development, where he was an associate for three years from 1993 to 1996, then of counsel from 1996 to 2004

- Obama was a founding member of the board of directors of Public Allies in 1992, resigning before his wife, Michelle, became the founding executive director of Public Allies Chicago in early 1993.

- Obama served on the board of directors of the Woods Fund of Chicago, which in 1985 had been the first foundation to fund Obama's DCP, from 1993–2002, and served on the board of directors of The Joyce Foundation from 1994–2002

- Obama served on the board of directors of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge from 1995–2002, as founding president and chairman of the board of directors from 1995–1999

- Obama served on the board of directors of the Chicago Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, the Center for Neighborhood Technology, and the Lugenia Burns Hope Center

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama

 

Your disdain for the state of Alaska is noted, but it's still got twice the land area of France.

(Alaska's population is roughly the same as Delaware's, as it so happens.)

I thought that Barack Obama was the Democratic candidate for President and Biden was running for Vice-President.

I agree that serious questions can be asked about whether both Obama and Palin are truly ready to be President. But those concerns might be a little less pressing in Palin's case. By running for the Vice-Presidency she's running for the practice-squad, so to speak, sort of an on-the-job training post where she would be positioned to observe the whole process from inside without having to shoulder the responsibility.

Isn't that what many people are asking about Obama? Is he... really... the best Democrat for the Presidency? Or just the trendiest?

Yes, that it is.

 

Summary of Palin's experience

- She invested $5 billion in state savings, overhauled education funding, and implemented the Senior Benefits Program that provides support for low-income older Alaskans

- She created Alaska’s Petroleum Systems Integrity Office to provide oversight and maintenance of oil and gas equipment, facilities and infrastructure, and the Climate Change Subcabinet to prepare a climate change strategy for Alaska.

- During her first legislative session, Governor Palin’s administration passed two major pieces of legislation – an overhaul of the state’s ethics laws and a competitive process to construct a gas pipeline.

- Governor Palin is chair of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact Commission

- She was recently named chair of the National Governors Association (NGA) Natural Resources Committee

- Prior to her election as governor, Palin served two terms on the Wasilla City Council and two terms as the mayor/manager of Wasilla

- She has served as chair of the Alaska Conservation Commission

- She was elected by her peers to serve as president of the Alaska Conference of Mayors. In this role, she worked with local, state and federal officials to promote solutions to the needs of Alaska's communities

- Prior to taking office, Palin served on numerous boards and commissions throughout the state

I find politics fascinating and will spend eons discussing every nuance of the field. I tried to post links to information that may help you evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of a particular candidate.

Finding information takes time and effort. I have tried to be as unbiased as possible discovering relevant information and facts for the benefit of voters.
I like to tear candidates apart. This is how I and others get to know their prospective vp or president. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of a particular candidate.

Source: http://gov.state.ak.us/bio.php

 

I f she is not in jail for corruption!

 

Bruce is correct. Obama spent only 173 days actually working as a U.S. Senator. The rest of the time he has been a senator he has been working full time campaigning for the presidency.

....only 173 days of actual experience.

 

From the Rasmussen Report - 8/31/08

There have been significant changes in perception of John McCain in the two days of polling since he named Alaska Governor Sarah Palin as his running mate. Since then, 49% of Republicans voice a Very Favorable opinion of McCain. That’s up six percentage points from 43% just before the announcement. Also, 64% of unaffiliated voters now give positive reviews to McCain, up ten points since naming his running mate.

 

It's all in the context, Rich. IMO you're using it as a term of derision, when in fact it's refreshing to see someone who isn't either an entrenched Washington pol or someone with a carefully crafted Ivy League pedigree on the national stage.

Actually Rich, my commentary on Palin on this board has been limited to my remarking she isn't going to draw Hillary Clinton voters (something I still believe) and that the more I read about her, the more I think McCain knew what he was doing (also something I still believe). That's not what I'd call a ringing endorsement, never mind a "rationalization". Until a few days ago I didn't even know Alaska had a female governor, so I'm still learning about her, unlike you who has apparently closed your mind without knowing much except what's been fed to you by the mainstream media.

Obama had 143 days (I was mistakenly generous and gave him 173 before) Senate experience before he announced his candidacy for President. I think you'd be lucky to know where all the bathrooms are in that amount of time.

And please, spare me the HARVARD LAW!!!! I'm not impressed. Unless they had teleprompters at Harvard Moot Court, Obama was probably a disaster at extemporaneous speaking, because he sure is now.

Need I remind you, the greatest President in my lifetime (Ronald Reagan) had a Bachelor's degree in Sociology from a small Christian liberal arts college (Eureka), but that didn't stop him from bringing down Communism.

As mentioned, I haven't defended or endorsed anyone, but the fact that Democrats such as yourself and the mainstream media are beside themselves over Palin's selection tells me McCain may be on to something. When I heard Biden was the VP pick, I was thrilled because I think he's a liability. If I was screaming about how inept it was, that would mean I was worried.

Well Rich, if you think I'm not going to speak my mind simply because I have the ability to lock threads and flush trolls, you also have another thing coming. If you can point to one instance, just one, of me using my admin powers to my personal benefit then it's fair game. If not, leave that out of the debate.

Rage on, Rich.....it just makes me even more convinced Palin is a Trojan Horse that has the Democrats scared shitless.

 

I was mistakenly generous....it's actually 143 days;

http://www.gopusa.com/theloft/?p=707