Why do people NOT in the know continue to say...

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Odin, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. Odin

    Odin New Member

    ...that doctorates from DETC schools won't get you even a sniff at adjunct positions? I mean, do a quick search and read through the threads. Everyone that doesn't have any experience hiring adjunct faculty or applying with a DETC doctorate prophesies gloom and doom for all aspiring adjunct faculty that are doing DETC doctorates. Then, out of nowhere, like a ray of light from the heavens, someone shows up that actually hires adjunct faculty and calls them out with the usual "as long as your degree is accredited, that's all that matters, even though you might no be as competitive to get the job if someone is applying with a doctorate from UCLA, you are not disqualified by any means if you are using your doctorate from a DETC to get an adjunct job."

    So why does the myth continue to persist?
  2. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    Because for RA schools it is not a myth. When I worked at a university, I was working closely with the hiring committee. For a doctorate to be considered a doctorate (meaning a pay raise, eligibility for tenure, eligibility to make full professor) it HAD to be either RA or the foreign equivalent.

    Could a person get a teaching gig with a DETC doctorate if the had an RA masters? Sure. But then again that same person could have gotten the position with the masters alone and NO DETC doctorate. I think this may be where there is some confusion. I know people that have unaccredited doctorates that have teaching positions at universities. HOWEVER, they got those positions based on their accredited masters degree.

    If a person is struggling to find adjunct work with an RA masters degree, I question how much of a bump in employability they will receive with a DETC doctorate. In contrast, I know SEVERAL people personally that have gotten tenure track teaching positions with an RA FOR-PROFIT doctorate. I know some that have gotten the tenure track position simply by being enrolled in the RA for-profit PhD program, with the stipulation that they would not be eligible for tenure until they get their doctorate.

    There may be some RA schools that don't care whether the doctorate is RA or DETC, but:
    1) I've never heard of any
    2) They are in the extreme minority
  3. Odin

    Odin New Member

    I just want to be clear that I wasn't talking about tenure track. I was simply referring to adjunct.
  4. StefanM

    StefanM New Member

    I know at my university that RA degrees are required even to teach one course. DETC degrees would be considered worthless for qualifying you to teach.
  5. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    Which leads to my previous point. If you just want to adjunct you can do that with a masters. If competition is so tight that a masters won't cut it, I HIGHLY doubt a masters plus a DETC doctorate will help you fair any better.
  6. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I have a question I've been meaning to ask about this for quite some time...

    For years, I've noticed that people who get an NA Master's/Doctorate express concern over being able to teach, and that concern is usually supported by others who tell them that they have no shot with an NA Masters/Doctorate. However, there are hundreds of NA schools out there, so is this concern a reflection of even the NA schools not wanting people with an NA Masters/Doctorate to teach their programs?
  7. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    You will have to search through threads here but this has been covered many times. The general consensus when the threads are started and looked at is that even NA schools hire mostly RA staff.
  8. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Where did this happen at? I didn't see it in your other thread. Not being disqualified doesn't mean you have any chance of getting hired. Instead of saying "UCLA" I think you can simply put "an RA school." Do you have any circumstances of someone being hired solely because of their NA degree? I guess if you are the only person to apply and have an NA degree you are saying you stand a chance?
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2012
  9. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    The better questions are:

    What are the advantages of a NA degree over an RA?
    - Cost. That's it. Plus many NA are comparable to low end RA.

    What cases would anyone recommend a NA degree?
    - ROI. that's it,
    - Job promotion. If you know HR doesn't care about NA vs RA
    - Opening doors. If you know an NA degree will open doors for you.

    About 18 years ago I got a DETC BS degree for $1800. I slapped that baby on my resume and bingo I got a much better job in the private sector. That $1800 has paid off 100 fold. But that's all it's worth ... ROI.
  10. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    No doubt. I would love to be able to pursue an NA degree, it really makes sense. Lower cost (in some situations), opens up more choices, some interesting programs. But I don't want to be limited by what the degree will allow me to do. If I never plan on teaching, an NA degree is perfect in many situations. As a military member, for future promotion they just want it to be accredited. I still can't get over the fact that after that I will be limited and if I pay just a little more now I won't have that limiting factor. We can say all day long that NA degrees don't disqualify you from certain jobs but the fact is all things being equal the RA degree is preferred, at least in the academic world.
  11. friendorfoe

    friendorfoe Active Member

    I would see a NA doctorate as being most useful in consultant work. Given the number of consultants my office hires and the number of training classes we pay for (and how much we pay) I can say with a straight face that consultants (even part time) probably fare better in pay than most adjuncts on this planet. Were I to "teach" part time you can bet I'd be trying to do so as a consultant instructor.
  12. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Can you show one case where a DETC doctorate was accepted in lieu of an RA doctorate for a position that required a doctorate at a regionally accredited university?
  13. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I figured as much based on my own observations from reading faculty credential lists at NA schools. I asked because it seemed like it would've been a common sense decision for NA graduate degree holders to pursue NA teaching jobs almost exclusively because they'd presumably have a better shot in that arena, but I guess based on the information that may not be the case at all :-(
  14. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    I wonder if one reason NA schools tend to hire RA degree holders is because they would like to get RA accreditation down the road so it would be better to have RA faculty.
  15. Petedude

    Petedude New Member

    Same story here. Would love to pursue some of the NA options, even if only to be able to report back on some of the coursework and say I know personally what these programs are like. Problem is, where I live there are occasional super-good management posts explicitly asking for a regionally accredited master's. So for the next go-around, it's RA all the way. After that one's done, who knows. :D
  16. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    Or the fact that there is simply so many people out there looking for jobs you can pick and choose what ones you want. You would think if they were trying to sell their product they would show that their product is marketable, even in their own world of academia, but it doesn't seem to play out that way.

    "Come here and get your NA degree from RA staff. We will give you a degree, but we won't hire you."

    For someone that cares to look at NA schools out there, can you find any significant (I'll settle for a few) number of people that are employed at NA schools that do not have an RA MA/MS? I think it is kind of strange that they are selling a product that even they won't look for in someone's resume. Of course if they are marketing for use in the actual profession and not academia, it makes sense.
  17. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Off-hand I know of one tutor and academic advisor at Ashworth College who holds an NA education degree. But she's not listed on the faculty and is not a named Instructor. I'm going to search around and see what I find. I think a little hunt would be interesting.

    EDIT: Just found a few at Penn Foster.
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2012
  18. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Ask the other question:

    After having gone to a NA school, would you want to teach there?

    My experience with my AACSB and RA MBA is that I've gotten opportunities to teach at NA schools, and all have been woefully beneath my standards in terms of admissions and instructional ethics. In two instances I completed semesters to refuse assignments for a second. In one case, I refused to complete the semester when advised that "I needed to adjust my grading to account for people who couldn't write as we weren't Harvard and shouldn't hold kids to a high standard."

    So remember, when you teach and you put something on your CV, you're associating it with who you are and what your ethics align to.
  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    So it seems that the real question is...

    Why is it that people who are not in the know continue to say that NA doctoral degrees are as useful as RA doctoral degrees in regards to obtaining university teaching positions?
  20. Randell1234

    Randell1234 Moderator

    Well, I teach for an NA school and they only wanted transcripts from my RA schools. They asked me not to list the NA degrees in my bio. What do you think that mean?

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