Why do people NOT in the know continue to say...

Facts or it didn't happen

I expect you'll say someone like Sergei Brin or Bill Gates, or someone that's less of a brand name but no less eminent in his field.

 

Palm Beach State College -- a public, regionally-accredited school in Florida -- is currently advertising for adjunct instructors to "teach courses to college students in Computer Science."

The job posting says:

So they want that experience, but they don't require any degree.

At the bottom of the post, it states: "Degrees must be from a regionally accredited institution of higher education." This is probably boilerplate language that is attached to all PBSC job postings, most of which presumably do require degrees. So when PBSC does require a degree for a position, it apparently has to be RA.

 

My, how time flies!

 

I'm wondering whether DETC schools will start hiring DETC doctoral graduates.

 

To be fair and honest, the guy I know that teaches at the CC with an NA masters has about 15 years of real estate business experience and he teaches classes that are part of a certificate program. So, I suppose that doesn't count for too much, as he was most likely hired based on work experience and expertise in the field. Plus the classes are not considered "academic" as much as they are "vocational."

The more I analyze the situation the more I...I..I could have been overstating things a bit. Doctorate from NA's are worthless for academia, but could be beneficial in the "real world." :redface:

 

I live in the CC world, and so I have zero experience beyond that, but when you get into the CC, it's the division that determines the degree requirements. In order to teach in a college transfer (AA/AS) division, you need an RA masters period. If you're in anything else (AOS/AAS/cert/EC) the degree requirements are not requirements- they are set by the house. This used to be a safe bet, career/trade occupations, but not so anymore.

My first CC job was as a dept head, I was hired to launch a program. I did that with an associate's degree from an NA college. Correction, "THE" college in my field lol. That said, my field used to be restricted to AAS/AOS/certificate programs. That's no longer the case, and I've observed numerous culinary programs drift over into a business dept that falls under the AA/AS division. That's a game changer, because that means RA Masters to teach. Not many chefs in that applicant pool, but that's changing. (myself included) My real degree- the one that made me skilled- is an AOS from an NA college. Since then, I've added an AA and BA from an RA college to check the box. Husband has a BS from an NA in our field and he's up for a full time faculty position with a private RA university (interviews Wed) so.......???

 

I'm fairly certain of my assertion, but I will locate data and come back. I seem to remember being shocked when I originally found out, then verifying it in the Education Code or other similar state-level authority.

 

Actually I was thinking of a guy name Scott Bradner who teaches at the Extension School now, but IIRC taught as a Senior Preceptor at Harvard College for 8 years. The guy has been at Harvard since 1966 and has been deeply involved with the internet since back in the ARPANET days.

 

Schools have different policies, but historically, the university-level teaching positions designated by terms such as "lecturer", "preceptor", "instructor" etc. were often held by people without doctoral degrees. As Wikipedia puts it:

Over time, the competition for these positions has increased. In practice, it has become increasingly common for such positions to be filled by people with doctorates. So even though a doctorate may not be strictly required for a lecturer or preceptor position, you may not be a competitive candidate today unless you have one.

 

Thank you for holding. . .

Taken from:
MQ's for Faculty and Administrators

Like I said, I was shocked when I saw it. I actually remember reading about it here, then looking it up. For those who appreciate NA schools, this is a nice find.

 

These are the minimum qualifications. My guess is that if you have an NA degree and there are other candidates that hold RA degrees, they will get preference. If you have an NA degree and you are the only one applying, or everyone applying has an NA degree, then you have a shot.

 

I'm not saying there won't be competition, but it's better than not being able to teach in the system at all if it's what you really want to do.

 

1. At a minimum, the California community colleges must abide by the minimum standards listed above.

2. As regionally accredited institutions, California community colleges must abide by the standards of the regional accreditors.

Or is California going to separate from the standards of the regional accreditators (WACS)?

 

They have to abide by RA standards, that's the entire purpose of having RA. Everyone abides by the same standards and as a result, transfer is likely. If cowboy schools do their own thing, they shoot themselves in the foot.

 

I think the opportunities to teach with a NA degree are so few that it might be like not being able to teach. I think there are so many people with RA degree wanting to teach that someone with an NA is out of luck

 

While the purpose of this site is discourse and general conversation about schools, programs and accreditation it seems like we get one of these threads about RA v. NA every once in a while and it turns into the exact same thing over and over again.

People with NA degrees, or people who want to go to NA schools want to believe that they won't be at a disadvantage when positioning themselves for an academic hire.

People who have RA degrees or who really know the ins and outs of the system will refute this belief and present perfectly logical and supported arguments.

People with NA bias will make an argument about California, other countries, or working in areas with a lower concentration of RA candidates.

People of the RA position will say.. "yes in certain circumstances it will work."

The thing that no one ever says is this:

1. Given certain circumstances people guilty of murder are let go.
2. Given certain circumstances monkeys have orbited the Earth.
3. Given certain circumstances you may get a decent teaching appointment.

But if you have to move to the periphery of academic thought to be considered for an appointment, or work at a career school or a for profit, there are significant trades-off that make the proposition less than wonderful.

Similarly if you have to roll the dice on being the fortunate ones that do well in academia with a NA degree (well meaning RA appointment with potential for research and not teaching in an environment better likened to a high school) then I'd suggest you take the money you spend on the NA doctorate and invest it in the Mega-Ball.

Statistically, your chances for a positive outcome are similar with far less work.

 

So let me get this straight, you are saying, in short, "why not stack the deck in your favor and get an RA degree...jackass" or something like that right?

 

That is kinda what I took from it as well. Actually, I think ITJD did a great job of summarizing this continual debate.

 

I do too - Bravo ITJD!

 

I'll stand by the content of my original post. I do, however; stack decks as a matter of habit.