Why do people NOT in the know continue to say...

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Odin, Mar 30, 2012.

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  1. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I don't doubt that, but it's not fair to throw a blanket over the entire NA body because of a few bad schools. In all fairness, admission standards are low at a lot of schools these days across the accreditation board, and most of them are bringing in bad students who don't belong in college in the first place just for the goal of making more profit.

    I went to a few RA's where the students were writing at or beneath the junior high level, couldn't formulate a sentence, couldn't spell, never heard of a period, couldn't nail a contraction if their lives depended on it, and so on. To make matters worse, at one of the RA's some of the professors were dumber than the students who themselves were just a missing brain cell away from needing a helmet as everyday living attire...

    The problem is that a lot of these schools don't have a basic English test as an admission requirement, but that would obviously cut enrollments dramatically and destroy their profits since most of the flocking students would fail miserably.

    So, I agree that admission standards are low and there are a lot of terrible students, but it's certainly not just an NA issue.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 30, 2012
  2. Psydoc

    Psydoc New Member

    A degree from a NA school with all (mostly) RA staff may have a better change of having its credits accepted at a RA institution - this could be a good selling point for students.



     
  3. jam937

    jam937 New Member

    Most likely the RA school won't take the NA credits regardless of faculty credentials.
     
  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    We've previously heard anecdotal evidence that indicates that some (most) NA schools require RA doctorates for faculty. I don't know if that's just or injust but it seems to be reality.
     
  5. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    This is a very fair statement. I agree with the intention of it.

    This said, I've found that every time I've been fair to strangers in my dealings with them, I've just set myself up to be taken advantage of. This leads me not to be a fair person except with those that I've a long history with, so in general I'm pretty happy painting broad strokes to avoid horrible situations. It works for me.

    I'm also not a big fan of for-profit education, and I've never allowed myself to work for a for-profit once I've learned of its status. Early on I made that mistake. Never again.

    True, it's a for-profit issue compounded by low admissions standards. What I'd say though is we need to be careful about addressing the admissions standards issue on these forums. It tends to bring out the vocal part of the community that believes higher education is a basic right to everything that breathes and can sign a form.

    My worst student could not write, could not follow basic directions and would take my time in labs to explain that which he could not read, verbally. Of course, when I took this to admissions it was a case of parents taking care of paperwork.
     
  6. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Because they're daft.
     
  7. Odin

    Odin New Member

    Whoa peeps. Let me make a few clarifications. I'm not saying that an NA degree would be held on par with an RA degree. Of course it wouldn't. I'm not sure that's fair, but the RA agencies seem to have a stranglehold on the "standards" of education. I've worked closely with WASC twice, and to be honest, anyone can fake their way through an accreditation process. It's pretty much a joke. But hey, most organizations are when you really get into it.

    I think NA's are more for professional advancement. I don't think, from what I've read and gathered, that having one disqualifies you from teaching adjunct in academia. It's probably near impossible to get a full time position with an NA doctorate, but I think adjunct it possible. Now, if someone else has an RA doctorate and you don't, of course you're SOL. But if the position recommends a doctorate for adjunct, and it's in a remote location, and there aren't many applicants, an NA doctorate could be beneficial.

    If you want to go into academia as a full time professor, of course you're wasting your time with an NA degree. Nobody is arguing that. Of course, you could always claim that a person teaching with an NA doctorate is actually doing so because of their RA masters, or even their work experience. Who knows?
     
  8. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    I've seen RA's put some schools through flaming hoops. I've also seen NEASC fly through an accreditation over drinks and a social hour with a long standing "in" school. It's who you know and how credible you are. If you can keep your school out of the media for any visible problem, you're likely to get the soft process instead of the hard one.

    I think this depends on three factors:
    1. How podunk the school is.
    2. Whether or not the candidate also has a RA Masters.
    3. Whether or not the candidate knows someone on staff or has already taught as an adjunct elsewhere. Experience and camaraderie tends to trump credentials.

    True, but the question is.. if a person can adjunct with a RA masters and is doing so, why get the NA doctorate if it's not going to improve their professional standing beyond adjunct? It's a circular situation.
     
  9. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    I cannot recommend NA schools, however my close friend has an NA DPT from a well known school in Florida. He is now a district manager of a few physical therapy clinics and is doing quite well. His education was superb and he is very happy with his degree. When he was working on his DPT I didn't even know what NA and RA was, but I was and am damn proud of him.
     
  10. Odin

    Odin New Member

    I concede your point. Maybe just to "feel" more legit they get an NA doctorate. I'm not sure...
     
  11. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    So now you're saying it's not a "myth?"
     
  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I've never liked the way these schools find themselves having to operate. Some of these schools have more students enrolled than the populations of some notable cities. It just seems awfully difficult to maintain quality at levels that high. That's not to say that non-profits aren't pulling some doozies or engaging in practices that would appear more for-profit than non-profit, but looking at the enrollment numbers at some for-profits you have to figure that some pretty aggressive marketing tactics had to be administered to make that happen.

    I know of one non-profit NA school (Lakewood College). I'm sure there are others. Problem with Lakewood is that they won't tell you their faculty' credentials. I've kindly asked three different times, and each time they swore they'd email it to me, but it never comes. I ask anytime I see a class I might be interested in, because I always worry that I'll run into some joker with a fake degree from a phony place like Rochville.
     
  13. Odin

    Odin New Member

    Not at all. People can get jobs with NA degrees. Maybe the stars have to align for them a bit, but it's not impossible.
     
  14. JBjunior

    JBjunior Active Member

    1) You are the only one to apply
    2) You have an RA masters
    3) You are the only one to apply

    I don't think anyone, at least intentionally, said that in all situations there was a written rule that NA degrees were an explicit disqualification. I think what you just said is what everyone talks about, that especially in this market an NA degree as a stand alone isn't marketable in academia. If you are waiting for the stars to align, you are probably going to starve.
     
  15. Odin

    Odin New Member

    The overwhelming sentiment on these forums is that you are screwed and will never get a shot at every getting adjunct positions. That's what the thread was about. And I think there have been many people that have said that there is a written rule that NA degrees were an explicit disqualification. Just do a quick thread search.

    Furthermore, I never said an NA degree was "marketable", just that it wasn't impossible to get an adjunct position.

    And again, I'm not disagreeing with you. The stars need to align, but its possible. You can also get struck by lightning, with the lotto, or find proof that God actually exists. None of those are likely, but they are all possible.
     
  16. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    I bought a mega millions lottery ticket yesterday but I didn't quit my job today despite the fact that it's possible that I could win. I'm not going to make life altering decisions based on the tiniest of probabilities. I think that NA doctoral degrees have some usefulness and could even be worth the expense in some situations but if your goal is to teach at the university level I'd reconsider that path. This university teaching thing is not for me but if I was looking for such a position I'd at least consider whether getting a second RA Masters degree would be more useful than getting an NA doctoral degree.
     
  17. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member

    How long ago was it that the USDE granted the DETC an expansion of scope to be offering professional doctorates? Is that enough time to have any DETC doctoral graduates yet?
     
  18. Odin

    Odin New Member

    I agree wholeheartedly.
     
  19. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Can you show one case where a DETC doctorate was accepted in lieu of an RA doctorate for a position that required a doctorate at a regionally accredited university?
     
  20. Odin

    Odin New Member

    Again, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said anything about getting hired specifically at RA universities with an NA doctorate. I took about 2 minutes and found a professor teaching for CCU (NA accredited) that has an NA doctorate...but I wasn't even referring to full time, I was talking about part-time, which is much harder to find. Many universities don't even list their part-time instructors. I'm sure if I spent more time I could find more.
     

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