Well, well. McCarthy actually acted for the good of the country

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Oct 1, 2023.

  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's not what's happening this time around, since the DNC chose not to hold any debates despite there being challenges from both RFK, Jr. and Marianne Williamson. Kennedy in particular has been polling in double digits. Ducking challengers to one's party's nomination isn't any more impressive when it's Biden doing it than when it's Trump doing it.

    (Although I get the politics of it, since the plan has been to marginalize Kennedy as much as they possibly can.)
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Of the presidents who were elected to the position--as opposed to those who were elevated from the VP--exactly one has been denied re-nomination by his party. That was Franklin Pierce. He's the list.

    There is NO reason to think this re-nomination will be any different. Nor should it be.

    Thus, Biden ignoring any declared Democrats is NOT the same as Trump doing it.
  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    While I agree that it's unlikely that Biden would lose renomination to either of those challengers, if he's such a slam dunk, then there there's no reason for the DNC not to hold debates.
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    It would probably only provide fodder for Republican attacks and have terrible ratings. JFK Jr is a joke, a bad joke of a politician. If there was someone interesting running against Biden then I'd have a different opinion.
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  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    You may not find him interesting, but he's polling double digits. He's no Marianne Williamson.
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    RFK is a wako looney tune. Not even his own family supports him. Then his idea to run as an independent makes no sense unless he wants to return Trump to the Oval Office. I'd definitely pick a too old Biden before I'd pick a looney tune Daffy Duck.

    Kennedy is an attorney who made his name as an environmental campaigner before achieving notoriety as a prominent vaccine sceptic, particularly over Covid-19. His campaign has been rife with controversy, not least in a podcast interview released this week in which he repeated a conspiracy theory about the 9/11 attacks on New York.

    His campaign has also been roiled by an antisemitism scandal after Kennedy told reporters at a press dinner that Covid-19 was “ethnically targeted” at white people and Black people, while Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese people had greater immunity. The false claim was embraced by neo-Nazi groups and condemned by scientists and Jewish organizations.

    Kennedy’s remarks echoed antisemitic tropes that circulated widely during the pandemic and portrayed the coronavirus as a global Jewish plot, causing members of Kennedy’s own family to denounce him for “deplorable and untruthful” comments.

    Rachel83az likes this.
  7. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I agree with you*. But none of that relates to the point.
    *Except that Kennedy running as an independent or third party candidate would be great news for Biden, because Trump and Kennedy would split the pool of disaffected voters.
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Respectfully, I disagree. Ironically, for similar reasons I feel Trump should not debate. (Different dynamic, as I said in a post above, but same reason.)

    Debating these others elevates them and lowers the leader in question. It makes Biden (or Trump) look like just another contender. As if there is a decision to make. There isn't in either case. Biden because he's the incumbent and has been successful. Trump because he's the overwhelming favorite of Republican voters.

    The RNC has to hold debates so it appears to favor democracy. But when was the last time an incumbent president participated in debates during the primary?
    Dustin likes this.
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Perhaps. But that's not what happened in 2016, when Jill Stein peeled off people turned off by Hillary Clinton (as did Trump).

    I think RFK Jr running as a 3rd party candidate would have the same effect.
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    My point was that I'm concerned about Biden's age. I wish he wouldn't run. I wish there was an open Democratic primary but, RFK would not be a reasonable choice even it were. Rich is right though. This isn't an open primary. Biden is the incumbent and if he wants to run again, then he gets it. That's just the way it works. Trump is smart not to debate. Biden would be foolish to debate.

    Regarding who a run by RFK would help and hurt. I found this.

    (NewsNation) — A poll conducted by a super PAC supporting Robert F. Kennedy Jr. reports a third-party bid would pull more support from former President Donald Trump than President Joe Biden.

    https://www.newsnationnow.com/politics/2024-election/poll-rfk-jr-would-pull-more-support-from-trump-than-biden/#:~:text=(NewsNation) — A poll conducted,Trump than President Joe Biden.

    But that could be a dangerous game since political tides can turn quickly.
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2023
    Dustin likes this.
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    If he ran as a Green, then yes, that might happen. But Cornel West seems pretty likely to be their nominee this time around, and Kennedy is much more likely to run as an independent or as the Libertarian candidate, especially given the rhetoric he's been delivering lately. And that means he's a nightmare for Trump, not Biden.
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Lightweights all other that DJT who seems to be running as if he's the incumbent. Hm. Well, other Non Lightweights on the GOP side are Pence and...well, maybe DeSantis. The rest are nobodies. On the Democrat side, Biden of course and no one else.

    I think Pence is smarter than he seems to stay in the race.
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, but Green, Libertarian, or independent doesn't matter. When it comes to presidential politics, those are distinctions without a difference.
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    In terms of likelihood of winning, I agree (effectively zero in all cases). In terms of impact on major party candidates, I don't agree.
  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Oh, I will not forgive Ralph Nadar in this lifetime. I cannot say for sure that he cost Al Gore the Electoral College vote in Florida in 2000 (Gore, of course, won the popular vote) but Nader sure didn't help.

    Bush II was a genuine horror. Even Trump didn't kill a hundred thousand people for oil.
    Rich Douglas and SteveFoerster like this.
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    In that election, there were only nine votes that mattered.
    Rich Douglas likes this.
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    How Many Bombs Did the United States Drop in 2016?

    Obama Biden Dunford

    [Note: This post was updated to reflect an additional strike in Yemen in 2016, announced by U.S. Central Command on January 12, 2017.]

    As President Obama enters the final weeks of his presidency, there will be ample assessments of his foreign military approach, which has focused on reducing U.S. ground combat troops (with the notable exception of the Afghanistan surge), supporting local security partners, and authorizing the expansive use of air power. Whether this strategy “works”—i.e. reduces the threat posed by extremists operating from those countries and improves overall security and governance on the ground—is highly contested. Yet, for better or worse, these are the central tenets of the Obama doctrine.

    In President Obama’s last year in office, the United States dropped 26,172 bombs in seven countries. This estimate is undoubtedly low, considering reliable data is only available for airstrikes in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, and Libya, and a single "strike," according to the Pentagon’s definition, can involve multiple bombs or munitions. In 2016, the United States dropped 3,028 more bombs—and in one more country, Libya—than in 2015.

    Most (24,287) were dropped in Iraq and Syria. This number is based on the percentage of total coalition airstrikes carried out in 2016 by the United States in Operation Inherent Resolve (OIR), the counter-Islamic State campaign. The Pentagon publishes a running count of bombs dropped by the United States and its partners, and we found data for 2016
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Hey, but he holds the record for most bombs dropped by a Nobel Peace Prize winner.
    Bill Huffman, Rich Douglas and Johann like this.
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I feel guilty, laughing -- but yeah.

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