University of Phoenix's accreditation

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by speedoflight, Feb 9, 2001.

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  1. speedoflight

    speedoflight New Member

    This is not true. The US govt will not ask "is it regionally accredited?". The US govt will ask "is it accredited?" Reason for this is because the US govt doesn't classify one form of accreditation as being more supreme over another. All this emphasis on regional vs non-regional accreditation (I am not referring to those private degree mill accreditation but from accreditation agencies recognized by the US Dept of Education and CHEA), came from the regional agencies themselves. The US Dept of Education will never loan you money to go to a degree mill for they are not accredited by an agency recognized by the DOE. They will however, loan you money to go to a school that is for example, nationally accredited because the agencies that accredit the school is recognized by DOE.

    As for UoP, if you have you cannot respect the school, then why are you there? That's just plain and simple. As far as the degree is concerned, it is an accredited degree and it will be sufficient for you to gain entrance to state schools if you wish to go.

    You seem to be falling into the trap of "for profit" and "not for profit". ANY private school out there is for profit. If not, they'll be out of business. State schools are funded by the people, so they take on a different tone in that sense. But it's also without a doubt that they probably often times don't offer such a good education as private schools - hence the popularity of private schools.

     
  2. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    I work for the county government and if it is not regionally accredited, they will not recognize it nor will they provide tuition reimbursement. The U.S. Army is similar: If your college or university is not regionally accredited, then you are not eligible to be a commissioned officer!

    I had formed a rather favorable impression of UoP prior to enrolling. However, after coming to this website and reading the two pages of this thread, I was horrified. Are you suggesting that because of my short-lived horror, I should now quit and not pursue a masters degree from them?

    [​IMG]

    Upon completion of this 18 month program, I’ll either:
    -- be finished with educational endeavors
    -- enroll for a doctorate at Nova or University of Sarasota (unlikely)
    -- or get another masters degree in something else

    Who knows what the future holds! [​IMG]
     
  3. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    Ah yes, the blind faith of RA.

    Obviously the utility of any RA degree will be higher than non-utility although the quality of the education may not be (quality and utility are not always synonamous).

    Obviously every educational system has schools of various qualities however the US system is unique in the level of diversification in comparision with the homogeneity of other systems. The quality at the low end of the "accepted" US system is lower than other education systems.

    To term the UoP a diploma factory would not be an inappropriate term... few "real" schools have students who consistently claim how easy the school is.

     
  4. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    There are two types of individuals who go to UoP:
    1) Those who respect the school because they have no legitimate base-line of comparison (i.e. have no real education or have compared to real schools).
    2) Don't respect the school but earn the degree for programatic reasons (i.e. the dumb-asses will take any RA degree).


     
  5. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Speedoflight, these postings caused me great concern! Don’t kill the messenger (me) for reposting the message!



     
  6. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

    There is no blind faith in RA but in the US it is the standard. Like it or leave it. I do not think there are any better alternatives on the horizon in the near future.

    As for diversification of the U.S. system that is probably a plus as it accounts for a wide variety of programs. Diversification in and of itself is not an indication of quality.

    What you consider the "low-end" you need to provide some basis of fact that it is the low of the low when compared to other educational systems. Which other ed systems and why?

    As for the "real" students claiming that UoP is easy. Very anecdotal. No real facts and with the large student and alumni base of UoP what % consider it easy versus those that found it challenging and rewarding? Does it vary by program? For UoP are you trying to characterize the entire University? What about its online programs versus its on-ground programs?

    I probably have more questions than you can provide real answers. I would not make a judgement about UoP. From some of the posters it would appear that there have been qulaity issues at UoP from others it also appears that UoP has been addressing those concerns and has tightened up. What I would like to see is what % of UoP undergraduates get into a graduate program of their choice and what those graduate programs are. The same applies to the UoP masters students who go on to doctoral studies -- how many, school of choice, and where? Finally, what are employers finding from UoP grads -- are they satisfied?

    My judgement on UoP is reserved until I can find or someone else presents data on these questions.

    John
     
  7. speedoflight

    speedoflight New Member

    I can tell you that either this has changed or will be changing. Even the ABA has changed their requirements for entrance into law schools. There is in fact an anti-trust case involving this regionally accreditation issue. The Dept of Justice has ruled that the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS) has violated anti trust issues when requiring its schools to be regionally accredited. You don't have to believe me in this if you don't wish to. Go read up about this case. This is why UoP started accepting nationally and regionally accredited degree holders into their master's program.

    As a school and perhaps some may argue, as a corporation, UoP has some really advanced ideas compared to many of the other schools. I've talked to other UoP students and many are very happy they are there and it fulfills what they wish to achieve - which is an education for themselves that they can pursue while working. Choosing any school is a personal choice. You sound like you just want a degree for the technicalities of it. In that case, go for whatever school you think is the easiest so that you can just get the darn degree. Is this something to be ashamed about? No, for there are many, many who have done it and are doing it right now.


     
  8. speedoflight

    speedoflight New Member

    I am sorry but I was typing rather fast and what I meant to say here was DOJ has ruled that SACS has violated anti trust laws by requiring for its member schools to require for someone to hold an accredited degree as a prerequisite for entrance into its schools. Why do schools still practice this? Because they are free to impose whatever entrance requirement they wish to. There is no standardization of entrance requirement to schools in the US and schools are VERY slow to change for they are run by education bureaucrats.

    Again, if you disbelief, just call different schools, from Harvard through the state colleges and you'd find different entrance requirements.

    The Dept of Education, Dept of Justice and Dept of Defense - they're all arms of the govt. Since there is legal precedence and a ruling by the DOJ against a private organization for its practices, it shows where the govt stands on this issue.


     
  9. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

    I would think that this would be a problem for SACS setting the requirement. Individual schools have always been able to set their own requirements and in my opinion this is the way it should be.

    John
     
  10. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    Well sir, if you think that when you go to Canada/UK/Australia you deal with:

    Accreditation
    Degree/courses where students testify how easy they are
    4 week BAs
    Portfolio
    College credit exams that you don't need to study for
    etc.

    I can assure you that you are mistaken.


     
  11. me again

    me again Well-Known Member

    Wow, I didn't know that those countries didn't have honorary degrees. Amazing!

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    And you know this as a virtual certainty? You know Ken, you wouldn't come across as so pompous if you admitted once in awhile that something was your opinion, not fact.

    Speaking of which, when are you going to post your alleged evidence that the US has the majority of the world's worst schools? I'm sure we'd all love to see it.

    Bruce
     
  13. Bill Highsmith

    Bill Highsmith New Member

    Portfolios (Canada), prior learning awards (everywhere) found here:
    - - - - - U.K. - - - - - (Accreditation of Prior Learning, APL, is a common UK term; also, AP(e)L)
    http://education.leeds.ac.uk/~edu/wblp/a10.htm
    http://www.abcol.ac.uk/esu/apel.html
    http://cll.ncl.ac.uk/courses/vll/apl/accred.htm
    http://www.strath.ac.uk/Other/adultguidance/ag.htm (must use pick list for APL, the see APEL (not APFL))
    http://www.surrey.ac.uk/Education/cce/geninfo1.htm
    http://textweb.livjm.ac.uk/learning/lawp/
    http://www.uel.ac.uk/eds/apel/eds_apel13.htm

    - - - - - Canada - - - - - (Prior Learning and Assessment seems to be the Canadian term)

    see http://www.plar.com/web_sources/ for links to:

    Nothern Lights College
    Vancouver University
    Camosun College
    Kwantlen University College
    Malaspina University-College (must scroll down to find PLAR info)
    Okanagan University College
    Open Learning Canada/PLA Online
    Selkirk College
    University-College of the Cariboo
    Manitoba
    Manitoba Prior Learning Assessment Centre
    Red River Community College
    New Brunswick
    New Brunswick Advanced Education & Labour .
    Newfoundland
    College of the North Atlantic
    Nova Scotia
    Nova Scotia Community College
    Ontario
    Algonquin College
    Cambrian College (must scroll down to find PLAR info)
    Canadore College
    Centennial College
    La Cité collégiale
    Conestoga College
    Confederation College
    George Brown College
    Humber College
    Loyalist College
    Mohawk College
    Niagara College
    Sault College
    Seneca College
    Sheridan College
    Sir Sanford Fleming College (must scroll down to find PLAR info)
    Québec
    Université de Québec
    l'Université de Sherbrooke
    Saskatchewan
    The Saskatchewan Universities PLAR Project
    Saskatchewan Institute of Applied Science and Technology: Prior Learning Assessment
    University of Cape Town, South Africa,
    Experiential learning and the recognition of prior learning
    recognition of prior learning.

    - - - - - Australia - - - - - (Recognition of Prior Learning is the Aussie and SA term) http://www.education.monash.edu/courses/bald/ http://wasp.canberra.edu.au/uc/future/postgrad/postgrad.html http://www.unisa.edu.au/adminfo/policies/academic/a13.htm http://www.detya.gov.au/noosr/leaflets/recogpriorlearn.htm http://education.canberra.edu.au/view_crs_details.cfm?BID=46&TP=UG http://www.tafe.sa.edu.au/institutes/regency/courses.htm#Recognition http://www.curriculum.edu.au/vetis/geninfo/rpl_4.htm http://wwwtafe.lib.rmit.edu.au/busmag/crpl.html http://www.tafe.sa.edu.au/institutes/institute-pages.html

    They've given it some thought:
    http://www.plar.com/publications/database/1-4.html
     
  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Bill, that was beautiful, just beautiful. It brought a tear to my eye. [​IMG]

    I'm anxiously awaiting Lewchuk's response. This would be a moot point, of course, if you've been added to the dreaded list that consists of people that Ken can't reveal his "evidence" to. AFAIK, I'm currently the only person on that list, but I sure would like some company! [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Bruce
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, I've asked for something other than opinion from him more than once, rebuffed with the "I don't want to get into it"-style answer. Facts that counter their opinions don't faze people like this; the facts are irrelevant. Expect more of the same. What will change, however, is how others perceive his opinions--as unsubstantiated.

    Rich Douglas
     
  16. Bill Highsmith

    Bill Highsmith New Member

    Something like: they don't accept as much prior learning credit and not as often. (In other words, they're sluts, too, but lesser sluts.)
     
  17. drwetsch

    drwetsch New Member

    Bill,

    A very nice comprehensive response. I was about to do some of my own research until I scrolled down and saw your post. Nice job.

    John
     
  18. mamorse

    mamorse New Member

    Bill, please don't cloud the issue with facts! [​IMG]

    Mark
     
  19. barryfoster

    barryfoster New Member

    Bruce: There are a few of us that have been asking for even a hint of evidence, having grown tired of antagonistic rhetoric and cheap opinionizing. I thought we had turned a corner on this stuff, but I guess not. I'm with you on the waiting list ...

    Barry Foster

     
  20. Lewchuk

    Lewchuk member

    The Canadian education system is comprised of three types of schools... Universities, Colleges and Technical Intitutes. Historically, Universities were the academic places that offered degrees. Colleges offered 1 and 2 year diplomas patterned after University disciplines, they generally were vocational or University preparation programs. The technical institutes were vocational (the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker). Generally the Universities would not accept credits from colleges and the techs. People attended the colleges/techs for several reasons, as a fast track to the workforce, because their grades were not good enough for the University, because a good performance assisted in future University acceptance. Over time things evolved so that many Universities will accept credits (though seldom on a 1-1 ratio and they have a higher GPA threshold than a similar course from a Uni) and they even now offer degrees (although they usually have different names to differentiate them from the academic degrees... i.e. Bach of Engineering Tech vs. Bach of Eng). The vocational orientation and generally lower standards of these schools result in them being more open to PLAR. Note that none of the Canadian schools mentioned are actually Canadian public Universities.... although some Unis do use PLAR for their continuing ed certificates.

    Regarding the acceptance of this at the University level in Canada:
    "Credit In Courses by Special Assessment
    The Faculty allows students to gain credit in some courses by Special
    Assessment. Students are referred to the Academic Regulations section of
    the Calendar where University regulations are described. Not more than 5
    full-course equivalents completed by Special Assessment may be counted
    toward a degree.
    This does not appear to be a terribly common practice in the Faculty,
    but we feel that it should remain on the books. Perhaps it should be
    viewed at part of the University's attempt to deal with Prior Learning
    Assessment."
    or again...
    "prior learning assessment (PLA)
    has remained a marginal issue for universities."
    or again...
    Challenge Credit
    "Courses that have been successfully `challenged' at other institutions
    will be useful to provide advance placement at the University, but
    credit for such courses will not be given toward a degree. The
    University of British Columbia will grant credit on transfer only where
    the course concerned is recognized by the University as suitable for
    transfer credit and is taken in the normal way by the student."
    or again...
    "Courses listed on this Website delivered by SFU, UBC, and UVic are normally not available for challenge."

    However conceptually there is nothing about "PLAR" which is in conflict with academic standards. If you employ thorough, appropriate and objective standards (eg. assessment exam of appropriate rigor) you have a legitimate claim to credit... however this was not my experience as I obtained RA credits through the magic of US portfolio.

    Hmmmm, I hear the sound of people furiously scanning the internet for miscellaneous snipets of data, taken out of context, to try to make themselves feel comfortable with their positions.

    The fact is that to understand how different national systems can vary in quality you need to understand 3 things:

    1) To have experience, or speak with people who have experience, regarding academic standards in both countries in question.
    2) To thoroughly research the standards in both countries or benefit from such research
    3) To understand the structure of the systems, including how they are regulated and the strengths and weaknesses of each form of regulation.



     

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