Union Institute, DETC accredited degrees on "Quackwatch" list

LaFerney - While I'm sure you will continue to be picked apart, made fun of, and otherwise have various condensending remarks thrown your way should you decide to tread in certain areas, I am delighted to see your long list of educational accomplishments. You certainly have as much right to be here as anyone else. My impression of this site is that it is meant to be a public forum for all those interested in higher education to participate in discussions and learn from others, whether they possess a Ph.D or not.

There is obviously a long running feud here among certain participants that claim a sort of territorial right to insult each other and anyone else who happens to wander into the fray unknowingly. As I said further up in this thread, some don't play well with others.

I hope you will not let this particular thread keep you from continuing to participate in the future. I'm sure you will have much to offer and I look forward to learning from you and the others who have been, and continue to be, helpful and inspiring.

 

A discussion on Union will never remain a discussion on Union. It will always be considered a personal attack and responses will be personal. The Union grads here have been reminded of the deficiencies just a few times.

 

Thanks Dennis and Seeking help

Thank you for your support and observations. No I don't want to continue in this "battle" I really find degreeinfo.net informative and stimulating. I don't plan to spend time engaging in negative posting. Despite the rhetoric of our posts I will say again that I respect the Union Institute ( and CCU) I respect Steve and Rich's knowledge and achievement. I did feel a need to defend myself. I posted something because I thought it was relevant to the readers of this post- not to insult anybody. If anybody was offended I apologize. I understand that cetain topics in Distace Education are emotionally charged. Obviously the attainment of a doctorate (or any degree /certificate at the college level) is a great accomplishment. So my focus is to be to enjoy this site, learn from it ,and "move on" Thanks again.

 

I can't imagine why anyone would consider well-reasoned arguments like "You have discovered the biggest BSers on degreeinfo" as a personal attack.

 

The truth is normally a valid defense.

 

My apolgies, Dennis. I thought you were decrying the idea that "A discussion on Union will never remain a discussion on Union. It will always be considered a personal attack..."

But now I understand that this was not so much a criticism as a promise.

 

No you misunderstand - Rich at more than double my posts is a true BSer. Levicoff at 88 posts is also a BSer, just forgets his password and keeps re-registering.

I don't want to play any more.

 

Is that a promise?

 

I can understand how you might believe that the more a person writes, the less legitimate they are. Thus a doctorate without a dissertation is clearly the most legitimate option.

 

Touché.

Heheheheheh.

 

Re: Laferney has.......

Thank your for sharing. I don't think the possession of a doctorate is necessary to establish one's research skills. But Steve and I just called it the way we saw it. But such opinions are always subject to change.

I appreciate the fact that I will no longer put "laferney" in quote marks. Again, thanks for sharing.

What did you do in the Air Force?

Please ask constructive questions about Union. I'm sure Steve or I will be glad to provide constructive answers.

Civilly yours,

 

Oh, please When have you ever had even one substantive comment about Union? All you've been is insulting, which is a joke coming from someone who's pursuing a degree that many people would consider a joke.

 

This is all you ever have to offer. Seeing that you almost never have anything substantive to say about distance education, yet you have half the number of my posts, I'd say it is you who is the "BSer."

The lack of quality in your posts is magnified by the number. And yes, my number is inflated, but only because of responding to the likes of you.

 

Rich

I guess I shouldn't have made up all those things about Union that have become front page news.

 

TO Rich Douglas

Rich,
Iwas a corpsman in the Air Force. {Wilford Hall, Lackland AFB, Tx And Torrejon AFB, Spain} I got my B.S From the University of NY while attending courses on base offered by the U.Of Maryland, and my M.A from Ball State while there. So in a sense although we had in residence classes it could be called Distance Education since the campus was overseas! Thanks for your post.

 

Okay guys.... help me understand why Distance Learning threads often end up in "flaming contests?" I have been lurking around on a few sites and have noticed many people utilize personal attacks when responding to a question. Seeing how I am new to this "forum" thing, can anyone answer this for me? I guess I am prepared to be "flamed" for not having any DL education .


DK

 

Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

Hyperbolic indeed and a fiesty opinion in defense of Union. Yes, by all means, lets attack those attacking us. Actually, most people have never heard of CCU even though it is accredited (defined by the State as Approved, in which the State "certifies" quality and stability) by the 6th largest economic power and government entity in the world (only exceeded by the US, Japan, Germany, UK, and France). Further, most people don't know that the US DOE isn't permitted to recognize States as accreditors (except NY) due to federal law. That leaves the States recognized only as regulators. So in the case where quality assessment is conducted through inspection and extensive statutory procedures, as in California, accreditation at the State level is unrecognized at the federal level by law. I think most don't know there are many hundreds of faculty with CCU credentials teaching at accredited universities. This has been listed extensively on other forums. To assert that CCU is somehow "pathetic" is, well... misinformed.

As far as the CCU not requiring a dissertation for the DBA as Rich repeats often... that's true. But there's more to it, as Rich often omits. California recognizes that the learning model and expected outcomes for the DBA degree as taught by CCU is of a professional nature and therefore a dissertation typical of a PhD is not required. However, you must still pass a doctoral committee (mine contained two Harvard doctorates, two USC doctorates, and a doctor from Claremont) with an extensive scholarly written document in response to a number of professional situations and issues. (This process was omitted in the argument above so I thought I'd mention it.)

So even though Union is regionally accredited and CCU is not, I think most people don't know that Union doesn't require a dissertation for its PhD. CCU does. Union is interdisciplinary and programs of study are designed by the learner, with some critical doctoral committee members being recruited by the learner; CCU in comparison is traditionally structured. Also, the Union student body is declining and the school is looking at hard times, alumni are advising students not to enroll; while CCU is on the cusp of an exciting new era in its history, and its recognized accreditor is expanding its degree scope as well. CCU, unlike Union, has never been in trouble with its State authority and has been institutionally approved following each inspection since its inception. A joke? I guess to some, but in my opinion that's a hyperbolic and manic rant. And to counter the point about jokes... many moons ago, when I was but a whelp at Florida Institute of Technology, attending to the rigors of traditional education and struggling through a demanding Aeronautics/Aerospace program, my compatriots did in fact routinely joke about the Union of Experimental Colleges and University, student body 200, and it's "roll your own" philosophy ...what we didn't know about Distance Learning...!

 

Okay guys.... help me understand why Distance Learning threads often end up in "flaming contests?" I have been lurking around on a few sites and have noticed many people utilize personal attacks when responding to a question. Seeing how I am new to this "forum" thing, can anyone answer this for me? I guess I am prepared to be "flamed" for not having any DL education .

I think it's a male thing, you know, "My school's better than yours" , "Is not", "Is too", "Is not", "Is too". See the same thing in my city during basketball games between rivals like UK and UT with the frats, only here without the beer and using a higher class form of verbage (sometimes) and since we're all only virtual, no bottles or rocks get thrown (except the philosophical kind).

Thank you Kirland for the nice explanation of the differences between the two entities. There should be enough room here for everyone, you'd think.

Welcome DougK. There's much to learn here if you're looking for information about distance learning. Don't be surprised if you get the occasional slam, I think in my third post Mr. Kanerak said I should be "bitch-slapped" over the topic of algebra. I almost quit the board that day, I couldn't believe anyone in a group of highly educated people would say such a thing to a new person looking for information, but I stayed anyway. Glad I did, mostly the people here a great. You just have to learn to stay away from certain topics. This thread is an example of one of those.

 

No, because this stuff comes from the same few people, many of whom no longer post here at all. But one remains....

 

Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

That's the Union for Experimenting Colleges and Universities. Get it right--it injures your credibility to get so many facts about Union and CCU wrong.

As for "many moons ago," Nova and Walden were called degree mills by many respected authorities. So was the University of Phoenix. But those schools prevailed, became accredited, and have operated as such ever since. But CCU remains, after almost 30 years, unaccredited. They might become accredited by DETC--an option not available to Union and the rest in the 1970's--but they had to shed their doctoral programs to do it. That fact right there says it all about the quality of the doctoral programs--they had to be dumped because they didn't cut it academically. DETC says so, the regionals say so. (Why didn't CCU go for regional accreditation? Because it wouldn't be accredited.) Even CCU acknowledges this by dumping them rather than pursuing their accreditation. Will that all change in the future? There are a lot of "ifs" that have to occur many years from now. Perhaps you can go back and do a doctorate then.

No one unconnected to CCU compares CCU with accredited universities. Having to answer critics of Union who are "from" CCU is, well, absurd.