Union Institute, DETC accredited degrees on "Quackwatch" list

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by laferney, Feb 16, 2004.

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  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    I didn't blast the guy until he posted incorrect information twice--his assertions based upon 3rd party info that was inaccurate. My first response was not directed to him at all, but to Quackwatch. It wasn't until he repeated the incorrect information that I agreed with Steve's comment about the guy's lack of research skills. Even then, my comments weren't ad hominem. They were a characterization of what he posted, not some other, irrelevant concept (like a hidden agenda, illiteracy, pomposity, etc.)

    Please look at the thread and the order of the comments. The personal attack from laferney to me came later. Dennis', too. Neither were called for, nor instigated. They were first. In fact, neither Steve nor I really responded too much, except for my comment about Dennis' usual Union-bashing.

    As I've said before, I'd rather not get dragged into these things, but consider with whom I always seem to tangle. And consider who starts this stuff, and why.
     
  2. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    To Dennis,

    Of course I will forgive this comment--no harm done. It was my intention to give a response to your inquiry about the reputation of Union. I provided one resource (the US News rankings). You then used my "22" number, but got upset when I corrected your "5,000" number. I must say that in my 2+ years of posting to Degreeinfo, this is the first time that I have received a response like that.

    To everyone else,

    Although I have received my education from and teach at "traditional" brick and mortar universities, I believe that institutions such as Union U&I, Capella, Jones International, Walden, Western Governors' and U. of Phoenix are a healthy sign for higher education. All innovations are initially looked upon with disdain and given "poor reputations" by the established institution because they push the limits and force "outside the box" thinking. It does not surprise me at all that Union, Nova Southeastern, Phoenix or other "limit pushers" are looked down upon by other universities--These institutions threaten to redefine higher education (or at least expand its definition). There are many with a vested interest in keeping the status quo. I hope that the DECT, AALE and others can do some reforming of the accreditation process as well (it can use some).

    I am seeing the same thing occur in K-12 education in California, where the once-promising charter school movement has effectively been neutralized by the established educracy.

    Tony Pina
    Faculty, Cal State U. San Bernardino
     
  3. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Promise?
     
  4. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    When you get crapped upon as much as I do, responses sometimes come too quickly. I was just winging a number.

    Now I am going to have that Grover guy after me as well. Nice 45 Bill.

    To get back to the point I was making, however unclear it may have been.

    In ordinal terms of respect Union is very close to CCU and a long way from Harvard.
     
  5. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Thought I was.
     
  6. oxpecker

    oxpecker New Member

    Here, here.

    I personally have no interest in the vocationally oriented programs (e.g. in business, human resource management, public health, IT, criminal justice) offered by most DL programs. I appreciate the ones that offer something different. In this context, some of the schools suggested as alternatives to Union (e.g. Capella, Argosy, Fielding) seem rather dull.
     
  7. Jeff Hampton

    Jeff Hampton New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    But in the world of academia, things do not work in strictly ordinal terms. There is an enormous difference between the "worst" accredited degree and the "best" unaccredited degree.

    I often see academic job postings that call for an RA degree. Perhaps I have just overlooked those posting that call for an "RA degree, or a really, really good unaccredited degree."

    Of course, one can always claim that their unaccredited degree is actually accredited.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2004
  8. BobC

    BobC New Member

    Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    I agree with Mr. Dayson.
     
  9. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 20, 2004
  10. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

     
  11. Dennis Ruhl

    Dennis Ruhl member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    I have taught with a couple bachelor's degrees and a professional designation. This would somehow change??

    Why would someone claim that an unaccredited degree is accredited? I think I may have intimated that people could revel in their ignorance.

    Why does a discussion of how useless Union is end in a discussion of how useless CCU is?
     
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    Because you're the one saying it while pursing a master's degree from an unaccredited school.

    I've never said anything about how well-regarded Union is. You're the one saying the opposite, while attending an unaccredited school. That's why your affiliation with CCU is brought into question.

    And you're not just critical of Union. In fact, you're not "critical" at all because you have nothing of substance to say. You're merely insulting, all the while expressing your intention to fool people about the real nature of your (future) unaccredited doctorate.

    If you had something specific to say, fine. But you don't. In fact, the only reason you comment at all about Union is to try (lamely) to insult me. Grow up. Oh, and enroll in a real doctoral program. Whoops, that's right. You probably won't be able to with your CCU MBA. :rolleyes:

    (None of this is meant to put down CCU. I've always liked it, except for its no-dissertation DBA. But when Dennis makes Union's quality an issue, CCU's lack of quality becomes fair game.)
     
  13. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    OOOH! Bill, my friend, That's fodder for a totally different thread (heh, heh).
    ;)

    Tony (the theologically satisfied) :)
     
  14. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    Understood. As I said...no harm done.

    About the whole ranking thing: it is a very imprecise and precarious business. In my field (instructional technology), one of the top programs is Utah State (not a US News "tier 1") and one of the most up-and-coming programs is at the University of South Alabama, a school considered "4th tier" by US News. San Diego State's educational technology program is better regarded in the profession than anything offered in the UC system, despite the UC being a "level above" the CSU system.

    I recently read a dissertation from a Union doctoral grad that was well-executed and demonstrated good research skills. It was comparable in quality to work done at "highly regarded" institutions. That, to me, is a better indicator of quality than the opinion of some dean or admissions officer in a poll.

    Tony
     
  15. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    Pardon me, Rich, Tony, Jeff, Oxpecker, and other normal persons (non-theological types) on this thread: ultra-right-wing-kook* Lutheran ministers believe in predestination. Just not "double" predestination. Now, go back to talking about something interesting. Thanks. Bye.

    *This is the technical term for which Dennis was idly groping.:p
     
  16. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    Sorry, Unk, I though that there was a bit of substance in my last posting. However, it may not be construed as "interesting"...

    so... New mass media course: Advanced Wardrobe Malfunction.

    Tony:p
     
  17. Bill Grover

    Bill Grover New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    ===


    Tony, my pal, no attack intended on your satisfaction.

    Bill (the theologically Schwarmerei) :cool:
     
  18. uncle janko

    uncle janko member

    OK, guys, that's enough. This intrusion is partly my fault. Mea culpa. This thread is about Union, etc. Let's go back to the theology playpen now (somewhere on off-topic).
     
  19. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    Re: all hail the great Union grads..

    I think we need to put something in perspective here . . .

    Personally, I wouldn't give a rat's ass if Union were to close tomorrow. But even if that were to happen, Rich and I would have our regionally accredited doctorates, while Dennis Ruhl would still have a pathetic unaccredited degree from CCU, a school that has always been a joke. And laferney would have . . . hey, what does laferney have - if anything?

    Res ipsa loquitur, kiddies. :p :D
     
  20. laferney

    laferney Active Member

    Laferney has.......

    LaFerney has :
    Certificate of Advanced Graduate Study in Education -Bridgewater State College , MA
    M.A -Ball State University -Counseling {Psychology}
    BS. _The University of the State Of New York-Liberal Studies
    A.N -San Antonio College -Nursing
    A.A.S Community College of the Air Force
    Has completed Graduate coursework at BYU, Texas Tech, and Portland State University by Distance study
    Certificate In Paralegal Studies --Blackstone School of Law by Distance Study
    APRN,BC Full Prescriptive Authority
    LMHC
    several published articles in magazines, journals and a text book chapter ( Brown University newsletter, Continuum: Developments in Ambulatory Mental health care, Advance for Nurses magazines etc.}
    National awards for my programs and research in Innnovative programming and Advocacy
    http://www.s-t.com/daily/09-98/09-20-98/d03bu143.htm
    Numerous military Courses served in Both U.S Air Force(enlisted} and Army(Officer}
    And yes no Ph.D. I hope you can at least admit that is better than (if anything}
    I may have poor research and writing skills as judged by Union Doctoral degree holders. Thank goodness the professional organizations, journals, and magazines who gave me credit for my work didn't think so!
     

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