Unaccedited Faculty at Accredited Schools

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Jeffrey Levine, Feb 4, 2001.

  1. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    Question for Kalos -

    Where exactly in the Regional Accreditation standards does it state that one must have a degree from a regionally accredited university to teach at a regionally accredited university?

    I have reviewed the RA's standards and I can't find that implied or stated. IMHO, there is nothing wrong with a State Approved school as long as they meet state educational codes. The USDOE states that, "The United States has no Federal Ministry of Education or other centralized authority exercising single national control over postsecondary educational institutions in this country. The States assume varying degrees of control over education, but, in general, institutions of higher education are permitted to operate with considerable independence and autonomy..."States assume varying degrees of control over education, Thus, any school approved by an individual State is a legitimate school and offers legitimate degrees. If you need clarification, write the USDOE about this and you will get the same info. Because a school is not accredited does not equate it to being a mill or substandard.

    Unlike Canada and other countries, the US is chicken >>>> when it comes to national standards. IMHO, our accreditation systems is out dated and needs overhauling. I respect those of you who have a different opinion. That is mine.

    Accreditation is used by the federal government for use of federal aid to ensure that schools have an accounting process so that the monies go for education and not into someone's pocket such as the owners of diploma mills.

    And, no, I am not a mill apologist or supporter.
  2. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Why are you asking me ? If there was such a rule, thousands of professors who got all their degrees outside the USA would be out of a job.
    I think you need to research this in a bit more depth and reflect on what constitutes "legitimacy". There are a few specialized institutions - such as Rockefeller University - which don't need and don't maintain RA, and a few Church-affiliated Schools which maintain their own non-secular systems of accreditation. If you think the California "Approval" System is not bogus - well I disagree. Every other school is accredited - worthless or not.
  3. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    Customer - 01/07/2005 10:06 PM
    Quote from the USDOE Site: "ACCREDITATION IN THE U.S.
    The United States has no Federal Ministry of Education or other
    centralized authority exercising single national control over postsecondary educational institutions in this country. The States assume varying degrees of control over education, but, in general, institutions of higher education are permitted to operate with considerable independence and autonomy. As a consequence, American educational institutions can vary
    widely in the character and quality of their programs.

    In order to insure a basic level of quality, the practice of
    accreditation arose in the United States as a means of conducting
    non-governmental, peer evaluation of educational institutions and programs.

    Private educational associations of regional or national scope have adopted criteria reflecting the qualities of a sound educational program and have developed procedures for evaluating institutions or programs to determine
    whether or not they are operating at basic levels of quality."

    Accreditation of colleges and universities are said to be voluntary and not mandated. That if a school did not seek accreditation did not mean that those schools are substandard or have less quality education.

    Accrediting Agency Evaluation
    Accreditation and State Liaison
    U.S. Department of Education
    1990 K Street, NW, #7105
    Washington, DC 20006-8509
    Telephone: (202) 219-7011
  4. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Sounds like you're new at this...
  5. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    No, not new at all. I have researched this issue objectively. Facts are facts. Subjectivity about accreditation and a school's worth is not objective.

    You implied that the California Approval process for schools is "bogus". Could you supply a few potent facts to back this up? Have you attended a school Approved by the BPPVE in which you can share factual information that the school is a mill or substandard? or to compare the programs of the CA approved schools to RA or NA schools? Fact is that CA approved is not the very best but not the worst either.

    Regional Accreditation as do National Accreditation agencies use volunteer staff from their own schools to participate in and audit the other schools in their respective regions. Politics does play a high hand in accreditation, that being schools being harder on some schools than others and accepting some while rejecting others because someone may not like that program, a professor, political views, or someone said something to piss them off. And, I have found through much research that their are many differences in accreditation standards from one region to another.

    Others pick on national accreditation like it is beneath regional accreditation. Fact is, both are recognized by the USDoE and CHEA, thus should carry equal weight. There are schools here in the SACS region that are about as close to substandard as one can get. These are primarily the poorer schools. I would name names but do not want to offend anyone's school on here. I have worked in government with some of these graduates, even one's with a graduate degree from one of those schools. They couldn't put a paragraph together and the grammatical errors in evaluations and assessments were extremely bad. There are health care tech's with just a high school diploma who write better reports than some of those graduates from some of these schools. That does not tell me much about regional accreditation.

    Those facts given, we need changes made to our accreditation system that will hold all schools to the same level of quality and those who surpass that, great!

    In my undergraduate degree (SACS), graduate student teachers taught most of the courses. It was my opinion that I was not getting the expertise of the professor whom was in charge of the class in which I paid tuition for. This is hind site now. While at ECU, I took two years of premed before going for the Masters. In that time, I had two Indian professors in physicis and one in chemistry and could barely understand what they were saying. There was definitely a communication barrier. I had to drop one and take it under another professor whose primary language was english.
  6. Kalos

    Kalos member

    BPPVE Mess in California

    Some quotes from http://www.sen.ca.gov/ftp/sen/committee/joint/sunset_review/_home/2005_BPPVE_Background_Paper.doc (Delivered December 7, 2005)

    California's Regulation and "Approval" of universities through BPPVE is a mess - "totally worthless." Always has been and probably always will be. That is why California "Approval" has such a bad reputation and is NOWHERE near even the minimal level of DETC accreditation.

    Somehow your "thorough" and "objective" evaluation of the situation failed to discern this mess in California...
  7. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    Several schools have been closed down by the BPPVE in the recent years. If they are doing such a lousy job under legislative oversight, why does the State government continue to fund the agency and allow for its existence? The BPPVE is audited by the State like any other State agency.
  8. Robbie

    Robbie New Member

    The BPPVE took CPU to court to close that school down. The fine was $10,000.

    Final Order: California Department of Consumer Affairs Wins Permanent Injunction Against Columbia Pacific University

    After a lengthy court battle, the Department of Consumer Affairs received authority to permanently shut down a school that has been operating illegally since June 1997.

    Marin County Superior Court Judge Lynee Duryee entered a final judgement against Columbia Pacific University (CPU) on February 21, 2001, the Bureau for Private Postsecondary and Vocational Education (BPPVE) announced.

    CPU is a private educational institution offering distance-learning programs from the bachelor's through the doctorate level, and has been operating without State approval since June 25, 1997.

    "We hope this order will provide long awaited information and resolution for CPU students. The Bureau will monitor closely CPU's compliance with the court's decision, " said Michael Abbott, Bureau Chief.

    The judgment ordered CPU to do the following:

    Pay $10,000 in penalties to the Bureau

    Permanently cease operating or offering any educational programs in California

    Source: BPPVE website - School Closures.
  9. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Continued funding is no indicator of success. Legislative wheels turn very slowly in California. It tales a lot of effort to get consensus in the California State Legislature for reform. BPPVE and its predecessors have been a mess for many years - informed opinion on this is near-unanimous. Did you read www.sen.ca.gov/ftp/sen/commi...round_Paper.doc ? It's not clear whether you haven't understood the findings, or you've read them but disagree with the authors.

    You don't have to go into a sewer to know it smells.

    Can you name any "legitimate" Approval/Accreditiation which is worse ? Even NA is far better.
  10. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Bureau vs Council

    CPU's closure is well-known. I don't know why this action against CPU wasn't mentioned in the www.sen.ca.gov/ftp/sen/commi...round_Paper.doc paper. My guess is the author thinks it correct to say the *Bureau* never shut down any schools, because it was actually the *Council* - the Bureau's predecessor - which initiated action against CPU. Just a guess though.
  11. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    State approval by Alabama, Mississippi, Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming are far worse than California. The same could have been said for Hawaii and Louisiana in the past. The only state approval which is for sure better than California is New York, which is an actual recognized accreditor.
  12. Kalos

    Kalos member

    OK. Fair enough. I'm aware of the situation in these states. I understand these states to be merely "rubber stamping" rather than a stab at "Approval". I would not consider these states to have a legitimate "Approval" process.

    (from Bear and Oregon website)
    Alabamaba "Rubber Stamp License"
    Mississipi "No State Approval Required"
    Idaho "Automatic Registration"
    Montana "Weak license law"
    Wyoming "Rubber Stamp Licence"
  13. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Re: Warnborough MBA Running Troy E-MBA Program

    I got word today from a Troy Adminstrator that Mr Johnson is no longer employed by Troy State University.
  14. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Re: Warnborough MBA Running Troy E-MBA Program

    Was that the result of his Warnborough credentials?
  15. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Warnborough MBA Running Troy E-MBA Program

    I wasn't told the reason. The notificaton was a terse one-liner saying Johnson wasn't employed by Troy anymore and the department's webpages were being changed. No indication when it happened. I notice through Google archives that Johnson was listed as the Director of the EMBA program on May 11 11. At some point between then and yesterday, somone else was substituted as Director.
  16. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Chadwick University Time Bomb

    I found this profile on the webpage of an instructor at Georgian College, in Ontario:

    I wrote to the Administrators of the College asking whether there was a innocent explanation for this listing of a degree from bogus "Chadwick University". I got e-mail back a few days ago saying the matter was being handled internally. They wouldn't specify what the resolution was.

    When I looked at the faculty webpage today, Mr. Dick Ouellette's profile is not there anymore. (www.georgianc.on.ca/aviation/faculty.htm). It appears he is no-longer a faculty member at Georgian College (he started in 1985). Google's cached page shows the listing above as being on the webpage June 14, so the deletion occurred sometime between June 14 and today.

    It's annoying that this is a licenced PEng listing a bogus degree. Looks like the Professional Engineers of Ontario and the Association of Professional Managers of Canada (whoever that is) need to look into possible discipline action - perhaps loss of licence and membership...
  17. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Re: Chadwick University Time Bomb

    I have no tolerance for bogus degrees, but an M.B.A. seems to have little to do with an Engineering designation.......
  18. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Re: Re: Chadwick University Time Bomb

    Licensed Professional Engineers in Canada have a Code of Ethics - the violation of which can get you struck off the lists. One of these requirements is "Personal Honour and Professional Integrity". A PEng who claims a bogus degree violates one or both.

    I can't find the "Association of Professional Managers of Canada" but I notice the Canadian Institute of Management has an Ethics Code which prohibits misrepresentation.
  19. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Re: Re: Re: Chadwick University Time Bomb

    Are you insinuating that this guy's "membership" in the "Association of Professional Managers in Canada" is a misrepresentation of membership in the Canadian Institute of Management?
  20. Kalos

    Kalos member

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Chadwick University Time Bomb

    No - I'm not "insinuating" his membership in CIM. I stated that I couldn't find his "Association of Professional Managers of Canada". However, if it is a real non-bogus Association in the Canadian manner, it probably has a Code of Ethics for members similar to the CIM.

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