UK BA > US MDiv Equivalency

Stefan, I agree with your excellent post, except for this one part. As the original poster has the equivalent of an American M.Div., he should be eligible to apply to any credible D.Min. program, provided the admissions committee is helped to understand the differences in terminology.

 

He doesn't have a M.Div. or equivalent, he found one school that said it's equivalent, and that school doesn't even offer the degree itself.

 

Graduate admissions and credit transfers are often fairly fluid and involve a pretty decent amount of negotiation.

But trying to use a brief mention from one school's website to convince an admissions committee that a B.A. is the equivalent of an M.Div. is unlikely. And trying to frame that as "helping" them to understand "differences in terminology" is likely to be taken as arrogant, at best.

This is a B.A. It is not the equivalent, for academic purposes, to a U.S. M.Div. If it were a Bachelor of Divinity then maybe the OP would have a case. But it's a B.A. (Hons) and no degree evaluator is going to claim it is anything more than a bachelor's.

 

Bruce, I think it's wise to caution me (and anyone reading) not to rely on the opinion of a lone theological college, and I'm sorry if my post suggested that was the source of my advice. I'm not actually basing anything on that, but rather on actual practice in the field. I'm not keen to discuss more background on the open forum, but I hold the American M.Div. and Th.M. and a British doctorate, and have taught in the U.K. in university B.D. programs and at denominational theological colleges. The B.D. is an M.Div. The B.A. in Theology is usually equivalent to and sometimes exceeds the B.D. Both are first professional degrees.

Original poster, contact the Presbyterian Church USA or the Episcopal Church USA, both of which have experience dealing with trans-Atlantic transfers from the Church of Scotland and Church of England and ask for their assistance. I'm sure with their help that you'll find some doors that open.

 

I'd like to amend the above to specify that in the last line of the first paragraph, I was referring to the British B.A. in theology relating the the B.D. Aargh.

 

Hmm. Let's see here now. We've established that the UK BD and the US MDiv are equivalent degrees, both being the degree of ordination inm their respective countries. The $64,000 question is this: Is the hons. BA in Applied Theology the equal of a BD?

 

I have some studies toward an MDiv from Faith Seminary but I dropped out in my junior year.

 

I dropped out of Sunday School at age 10, in 1953. Not going back. :smile:

J.

 

I've seen a few schools in the U.S. Offering the BD as well. In one case it is offered as a first professional degree for people who don't have a bachelor's degree. The coursework is identical to the M.Div. work. If you go in with a bachelor's you come out with an MDiv and if you go in without you come out with a B.Div.

I recall reading some years ago that some schools, like St Tikhon's, accept people to the MDiv program even without a bachelor's and you still get the masters.

So the BD isn't unknown in the US and it isn't purely a UK thing.

And the BA the OP is discussing might very well be rigorous. But it is a BA (Hons). The equivalency is fairly well established that a BA (Hons) is only accepted as a BA in the US. It isn't a BD. It might mimic the BD completely. But it isn't a BD. So it isn't going to be treated like a BD.

Is there a program in the US that might allow admission to a doctoral program? Sure. If reputation is of no concern then schools like South are a clear path to an RA D.Min. But that is only going to be possible because they don't require a Masters to get into the program.

One can certainly reach out to the Episcopal and Presbyterian Churches. However, if you aren't affiliated with either denomination I'm not sure what assistance they would reasonably offer. At the very best you'd be limited to an institution affiliated with either denomination when arriving in the US. Not bad if one intends to be Episcopal/CoE or Presbyterian/CoS clergy. But if one is, say, a Baptist this might not be a path at all.

I've also checked a number of Scottish and UK clergy in the US. All of those (of the few I identified) came here with a BD. Those that came with a BA all earned MDivs after arrival. The only exception to this was a Scottish monk I found who had a BA and was evidently ordained in Scotland for the CoS before emigrating to the U.S. and joining the Episcopal Church. He doesn't appear to have any degrees beyond his BA but was eventually ordained an Episcopal priest. Then again, I've also come across a handful of Episcopal priests who don't have MDivs at all and appear to have been prepared for the priesthood without earning a religious degree.

It's a BA. And if a particular school wants to say that it is a super-BA that's practically a masters then that's their business. But that position is unlikely to move other schools into being "educated" into treating a BA differently than they treat every other BA.

 

The BD became the MDiv. I think some schools allowed people to upgrade. The few BD's I have seen were on top of a Bachelor's degree. So, the first professional degree was on top of an undergraduate degree.

I think your problem is you just have a bachelor's degree. You would be hard pressed to say you have the equivalent of a bachelors degree and first professional degree to enter a doctoral program.

I suggest getting a Masters in a religious field and then apply to a DMin program that will allow leveling courses in the doctoral program to make up for MDiv deficiencies.

 

I looked for current BD programs in the US and all of those remaining seem to bE offered through unaccredited schools (though ones which seem to not be diploma mills).

I have a nagging recollection of an Orthodox seminary offering a BD that was RA but I can't find it at the moment.