Too many Ph.Ds.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, May 19, 2023.

  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

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  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, man. I'm relieved. When I saw "Too many PhDs," I thought I was gonna have to give one back.
    Dustin, tadj, SteveFoerster and 2 others like this.
  3. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Not a word on an obvious way to mitigate some of this: professional doctorates in place of many PhDs.
    Maniac Craniac and chrisjm18 like this.
  4. tadj

    tadj Well-Known Member

    Professional doctorates may not meet the often cited criteria of “meeting your present and future needs.” If you leave the U.S. in search of a job, you may find that the professional doctorate isn’t just seen as subpar in comparison with a PhD; it may not even be acknowledged as a doctorate in the first place. You could potentially face legal consequences for posing as a doctor. I am thinking of programs like the one-year (no dissertation required) “Doctor of Healthcare Administration”, but even three-year professional doctorates may be counted as wasted effort once you leave the Anglosphere (plus a few other countries on the globe that acknowledge these type of professional doctorates). I am not even sure whether Canadian credential evaluators would recognize all these strange new doctorates. I’ve recently discovered Omega Graduate School’s “Doctor of Social Leadership”, which is promoted in the following way: “In place of advanced courses in research design, statistics and dissertation writing (upper third of the PhD/DPhil), DSL students diverge to complete a practicum project utilizing Action Research.” So In the end, you may be a Doctor in the same way that a graduate of a religious exempt college in Louisiana is a Doctor…within an overly circumscribed geographical location. PhDs and their international equivalents (for example: the Polish ‘Doktor’, etc.) fare much better in that regard. The odds of having them successfully evaluated and recognized cannot even be compared with those of a professional doctorate graduate. At this point in time, the professional doctorate is NOT the industry/business equivalent of a PhD, at least not on a truly international government basis scale. Right now, I don’t see the widespread acknowledgement, just a massive increase in the number of awarded professional doctoral titles, particularly in the United States.
    Last edited: May 20, 2023
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Long ago, in the US and Canada, the cry was "Too many University grads! Some are waitstaff, others are in the typing pool or lifting boxes in the warehouse." Next it was a glut - so folks said - at the Master's level - particularly MBA's. Now it appears our uni's are working day and night on production of excessive numbers of Professional doctorates - and now Australia claims too many PhD's - something that has been echoed here from time to time.

    Somebody is going to have to come up with even higher credentials that will go forth and multiply. Russian has the PhD (Nauk) and some Belgium-registered org. (with alleged Russian ties) has sold a lot of "Grand Ph.Ds." We need some new titles, to keep the degree-marketers going for a few more years.... there's still funding out there to be had....
    tadj likes this.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I had an alleged Russian tie once - as a gag gift I think. Little hammers and sickles... A seam came apart and when I went to have it sewn, Shirley (my dear Lady of Needle and Thread) picked it up and a tiny disc-microphone fell out. Пошел ты, Путин!

    Google (or our esteemed Stanislav) can translate that for you instantly, if needed. :)
    Last edited: May 20, 2023
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    There are some REALLY impressive titles available - and you won't need funding. The Universal Life Church has something for everybody. You can be a Doctor of the Universe for around $140. Too rich for you? There's a cute little number at the low end of the ULC price-chart. For $10, you get a really nice wall-hanger certificate proclaiming you, the holder, as a Jedi Knight.

    "Something appealing, nothing appalling (Hey, we're a Church!)
    Something for everyone, - we mail overnight."

    (Apologies to the late Zero Mostel)
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  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    But we probably don't have too many electricians or practical nurses.
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    As an American I hate to suggest this but...we're too class conscious about our employment.
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  10. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I was "ordained" by the ULC 9 years ago. Every anniversary they send me an email.

    Hello Rev. Chris,
    Another year, another cheer! That's right, it's now been 9 years since you became an ordained minister!

    :D:D At the ULC, "you get ordained, you get ordained, you get ordained..." You all get ordained!
    Johann and tadj like this.
  11. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Citation needed.
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Australia has a strong qualifications framework. If they wanted to elevate the professional doctorate's perception as equal to the PhD, they could. As for all that about the rest of the world, that's why it remains important to try to ensure the degree you seek will meet your current and future requirements.
  13. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No, which is why this country desperately needs a strong qualifications framework to help fill those under-staffed occupations.

    Interestingly, we're about a million short when it comes to RNs. Coincidentally, we have about a million licensed RNs who are not practicing. There's a reason for that. My wife, a long-time RN and now an NP, calls it "Charwoman Syndrome."
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Okay - here's part of a PM conversation with a German member who was asking me about earning a DBA from a recognized US university. He wanted to do it in two semesters. I found him one at Walden where that might just be possible -- and an article on 29 others. Not one of the 30 recognized, accredited US Universities can award a Doctorate that meets German specs.

    "Guten Tag :) thank you very much for your information. Walden University is NOT RECOGNIZED in germany. The other universities at 29 fastest DBA program are not recognized, too. It´s really hard to find a recognized university with full online DBA in 2 semester..."

    If you didn't earn your degree there, it can be pretty tough to get called Herr / Frau Doktor, in Deutschland.
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  15. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Germany is the only example of this I ever see, and it also applies to PhD degrees in business that are not AACSB accredited, which are not professional doctorates.

    (Also, IMNSHO, the German approach to this is scheiße.)
    Rich Douglas likes this.
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Jawohl - but they stick to it -- so none of that Scheiße sticks to them. :) You asked for a citation - I gave you one. There are other countries where you could have problems, e.g. Poland. In fact, the DBA degree is neither taught nor recognized in Poland. I'm sure that applies to some other US-recognized professional Docs also.
    Last edited: May 21, 2023
  17. JoshD

    JoshD Well-Known Member

    It only makes sense that there are more PhDs, Masters, and Bachelors. We are in a time in which higher education is easily accessible thanks to distance learning programs.
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Italy's not a slam dunk for ANY US degrees either.

    Google: "University degrees from non-European countries have no legal value in Italy and other European countries, (emphasis mine -J.) so it's really important you get your degree recognized. Italian universities are the institutions in charge of the recognition process."

    So you apply to an Italian University and go through hoops - your degree may be recognized - or it may not. Depends on the University and the individual evaluator. Can be a crapshoot. Or firing blanks.

    Here's an article that describes the process of getting a foreign (UK in this case) Doctorate evalueated in Spain.

    And Russia - Oy Gevalt! But who the heck wants to go there anyway? Last nutjob I heard of that actually went and lived there was a guy named Lee Harvey Oswald. ...

    Steve, do my two posts contain enough citations that you will believe there are quite a few countries that don't automatically take American (or other foreign) Doctorates at par? Or, in some cases, don't take them at all?
    Last edited: May 21, 2023
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    No, because my comment regarded the suggestion that professional and academic doctorates from US schools are treated differently abroad from each other.
  20. datby98

    datby98 Active Member

    Another country has been facing a similar problem recently. According to Statista (Textor, 2023), the current unemployment rate in Chinese urban areas is 5.2 percent; however, in the youth (16-24 years old), the number is approaching 20% (Ning, 2023). A report indicated that almost one-third of production line workers newly recruited at a tobacco factory had a master’s degree (Zuo, 2021). Graduates' unemployment issue has become a top government priority risking society's stability, and people have started to rethink if there are too many undergraduate/graduate students every year and what education's values really are (Pollard, 2021; Yu, 2023).

    Ning, N. (2023, April 20). Young people in China struggle to find jobs as the country's youth unemployment rate rises. ABC NEWS.
    Pollard, M. (2022, June 23). Analysis: Record numbers of Chinese graduates enter worst job market in decades. Retuters.
    Textor, C. (2023, May 16). Monthly surveyed urban unemployment rate in China April 2021-2023. Statista.
    Yu, C. (2023, May 15). Chinese Graduates Are Asking Where All the Good Jobs Went. Foreign Policy.
    Zuo, M. (2021, July 16). China’s universities produce millions of graduates each year, but many can’t get a decent job and end up unemployed or in factories. South China Morning Post.
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