Tea leaves?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by nosborne48, Aug 24, 2020.

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  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    From checking online, I read the following:
    Flynn’s connections with Russia wouldn’t fall under treason law simply because Russia is not technically an enemy of the United States, which the law narrowly defines as anyone that the U.S. is openly or declaratively at war with. A person can aid Russia to the detriment of the U.S. practically all they want, and though their actions may violate other laws, it would not be treason.
    Flynn may be guilty of legally and morally reprehensible conduct, but it does not mean he is a “traitor” who engaged in “treason.”

    How did Flynn sell his country? Is this an opinion or a proven fact? Is he bing prosecuted for treason?
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I think if Barr was caving to any pressure you would see number of former Obama administration officials prosecuted. Starting with RHC.
    Barr appears strong and methodical, and not someone who caves in to pressure. But also the whole pressure thing is inflated by the left media.
    I don't think what is being reported is accurate.
     
  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    You don't see anything unusual in all of the prosecutors in the Stone case resigning at the same time? You believe that if anyone bows to pressure to anything they must bow to all pressure? That make zero sense. Also, Barr can't actually do it himself. He needs others to do their part. For example, the reporting I hear is that he did his best to get the Durham report out but was not able to get Durham and his crew to compromise their integrity to that degree.

    You think that Trump is not demanding that Barr arrest Obama and Biden? I know it hasn't gotten as much news coverage as it deserves but our President is getting really desperate.

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12883259/donald-trump-charge-barack-obama-joe-biden/

    I predicted on this forum that Trump would do this. That is try to get Biden arrested right before the election. I expected him to have an October surprise backup plan to the Durham report. Since the Durham report scam has fallen through he wants something else. What I didn't anticipate though is that he is so incompetent and inept that he apparently couldn't organize an alternative. At least not yet, I mean it may still come but it is looking like he has probably failed.
     
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I don't know much about Stone.
    But the Presure you mentioned, is left spin. I don't think Trump is applying that pressure you mentioned.
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Seriously? He operated as an unregistered foreign agent WHILE SERVING AS THE NSA.
     
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is a strawman argument. I didn't say he committed treason. In fact, I purposely declined to use that term since it is clearly and narrowly defined in the US Constitution. I called him a traitor, which is not.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    You can think that all you want. But Barr's intervention in both the Stone and Flynn cases is inarguable. Since both interferences benefit the identified co-conspirator, Trump, it's hard to avoid the inference that Trump is pressuring Barr. Occam's Razor.
     
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    And when asked by congress if he intervened in any other cases he said no, not that I can remember. It is a rare occurrence and only happens when dealing with Trump cronies. But Lerner believes that there is zero evidence of any collusion between Russia and the Trump campaign, just because Bill Barr told that lie while falsely framing what was in the Mueller report, before the report was released. So, don't believe your lying eyes is the philosophy.
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    fivethirtyeight.com now has the President's chance of reelection at thirteen percent. Wow, no one since Jimmy Carter has ever faced such odds in my lifetime. Looks like the Senate will shift Blue as well.

    (We should have mentioned the messiah...)
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Rich Douglas may have called it, alright.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Treason and traitor have exactly the same root - Latin 'tradere' which literally means 'to hand over.' Both came into English from the Latin root, via Norman French. Treason is what it is - and a traitor is the person who commits it. They're intertwined, whether the US Constitution (or anything/anybody else) likes it or not. You can't have one without the other. Treason is a dark and nasty job - but some traitor's gotta do it. A person cannot properly be termed a traitor unless/until he/she commits treason.

    Yes, I know.... semantics. It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020 at 1:10 AM
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    One definition for traitor is "one who betrays any confidence or trust".
    Treason has a definition in the constitution. That is not a possible crime since we are not at officially declared war with anyone. However, treason also has the definition of "An act of treachery, betrayal of trust or confidence"

    To me a more interesting question is what will become of the Trump cult if he loses the election? If he loses in a landslide the Trump cult may be much more damaged than if he loses a close election? I don't know though. It would be interesting if one of the Trump supporters gave their opinion but that is unlikely at this point. Multiple pundits have predicted that Trump will create a Trump cult media station in order to more freely continue feeding his followers with lies and silly conspiracy theories.
     
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I don't like the idea, but I think the cult might far outlast its leader. His supporters may well revere him and keep his image alive for a very long time. He is said by some to have been the most divisive President ever. I would not be surprised if he remains a strongly divisive force long after he has "left the building" forever. His demise might indeed intensify his supporters' feelings - including fuelling antipathy of all kinds toward those who don't dance to that tune. Not a pretty picture.
     
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    From my understanding and opinion, Bash was tapped by Barr to head the "unmasking" probe.
    Bash a federal prosecutor appointed by Attorney General William Barr to look into Obama administration officials unmasking of unnamed individuals in intelligence reports concluded his review without finding evidence of wrongdoing, according to a source with direct knowledge of the probe, and without interviewing former CIA Director John Brennan.
    Supports my view of Barr. Not what the media is trying to distort.
    And the outcome is a good one.
     
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Conservatives are not going anywhere and there is no such thing as a Trump cult, just another invention by the left media.
    No matter what will be the outcome of the elections. The Conservatives will oppose to what can happen to the country if the radical left will take over.
    And I think Biden is the vehicle that the radical left will use to get to Washington.

    Poll after poll shows Joe Biden as a heavy favorite - despite him not knowing what state he was in when campaigning in Las Vegas last week, and him mistakenly saying he’s running for Senate.
    The radical left has a good chance to advance their radical agenda, and the Marxist cult will change the USA, and you have no idea what it will be like.
    If anything we learned from polling in 2016 is that some polls may just be off, some are advancing an agenda.
    There is a misreading of the electorate, based on many assumptions that are not likely accurate.
    And there is at least one major poll that has been historically right on the money and it's showing Trump is leading.
    I think what is important from a Conservative point of view is to keep the Senate majority.
    This will help to resist the radical left from destroying our country.
     
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    After doing some more reading I have a little bit more info on the subject.

    Some argue that Flynn was literally a registered foreign agent.
    After the 2016 election, his firm filed belated paperwork to declare he had been a foreign agent, advancing Turkey’s case against Gulen.
    So why didn’t Flynn and Rafiekian file as foreign agents at the time, as required by the Foreign Agents Registration Act? In their January filling,
    Flynn considered his client to be a foreign corporation— Inovo, run by pro-Erdogan Turkish consultant Alptekin — rather than a foreign government, and thus Flynn didn’t need to register.

    There was a strong case to state that he knew that the Turkish government was funding and that Inovo BV corp was a middleman.
    But if the main beneficiary of consulting work is a foreign government, you are, by law and by fact, a foreign agent. The question was if this was a government or a foreign company.
    This was not a clear-cut case and there was room to argue that Flynn wasn’t really acting as Erdogan’s agent but more as a PR man?
    Federal judge Trenga overturned Rafiekian’s conviction, based largely on his specific reading of the word “agent,” but also noting that Rafiekian was less involved with the Turkey deal than Flynn was.
    If anybody does business on behalf foreign business while serving in NSA or any other US agency, this is unacceptable. I know if I did something like that I be fired from my job.
    Depending simply on how you define Flynn's U.S. position at the time as a National Security Advisor.

    Just like it's been claimed that Biden's son "proxy" accepting millions from Chinese Government companies as a sun of VP Biden.
    Some say this is a major money-making scheme in Washington.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2020 at 4:36 AM
  17. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Someone forgot to use the Bleachbit.
    A water-damaged MacBook Pro was brought into a computer repair shop in April 2019. The laptop had a a sticker saying it was from the Beau Biden Foundation.
    The computer and its hard drive were turned over to the FBI last December, the repair shop made a copy of the hard drive that was given to NY Post.
    Emails found on that hard drive prove Hunter Biden introduced his father Joe to an adviser at his Ukrainian gas firm
    before the then-vice president lobbied for the firing of a prosecutor who was investigating the company, a trove of emails has revealed.
    Damage control is in action, to declare this is a fabrication. But a copy is with the FBI.

     
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    The problem is that treason is specifically defined in the US Constitution, whereas being a traitor is not. There are many ways to betray your country--to be a traitor--that are not technically treason. For example, treason requires a state of war:

    The Constitution defines treason as specific acts, namely "levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."
     
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    They will remain Republicans. They have nowhere else to go. The real question is whether or not the Republican Party can regain control over it--and them.
     
  20. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I understand. The question was wondering whether or not the Trump movement (really cult) would continue. There's little doubt that he will continue twitting, continue his lying, continue his pushing of conspiracy theories. The question is what percent of the current 35% of the electorate or so that he has right now will continue following him and believing the stuff that he says. Most single term Presidents quickly become irrelevant in the political arena. I think Trump very well could prove different, at least for 3 years or so?
     

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