Student Loan Debt Forgiveness 10-20k

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Futuredegree, Aug 24, 2022.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Forgive the students - but never forgive the lenders.
  2. nomaduser

    nomaduser Active Member

    US education system is broken.
    Tuition fee at top schools are too high!

    The high tuition results in smaller number of applicants, thus higher acceptance rate.
    Take a look at top 150 US universities with 70% acceptance rate. That's completely abnormal. Top schools are supposed to be hard to get in.
    In Japan, for example, the top universities have under 20% acceptance rate. Their lower tuition fee allows fair competition for more students.
    In India, the top universities have under 10% acceptance rate.

    In US, these competitions only exist for maybe top 30 universities. All other schools can offer education to those who can burrow money!
    The traditional competition is dead!
  3. Asymptote

    Asymptote Active Member

    I hear people talking about “free money.”

    What “free money.”

    The whole system is fiction, based on usury and fractional reserve banking.

    There are whole religions that are against that sort of thing.

    It’s all “fake money” not “free money.”

    It is all company scrip and everyone is forced to shop at the company store.

    It is not like the government is handing out gold bars and silver coins here. Nor is it like what FDR did when he stole people’s gold back in the 30s to redistribute to his friends.

    The whole economy at this stage today is fake. And just about everyone plays along. Then some folks clutch their pearls when the fiction takes a new direction.

    Entertaining to watch.

    Why not just declare a universal jubilee. On everything.

    Now THAT would be a great reset.
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  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - and now we can see why. But the Bible also has a message on this:
    Christ forgave. God forgives. But Man (at least here on DI) goes on about "free money."

    Forgive this old Atheist for saying so - but something is REALLY wrong here. Some "free money" folks here should re-examine their beliefs.
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  5. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    There's also a bit about predatory lending being bad:
  6. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Middle and bottom schools, too. The thing that's wild about bottom schools charging so much is that many times it's a school that no one has heard of outside of the city/area the school resides in. Or worse, a school everyone has heard of that has a bad reputation.
  7. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Active Member

    It's interesting to me how you will eagerly dismiss the teaching of the Bible except when you erroneously think it supports your point. Your statement engages in a category error. Christ forgave of his own volition, but future taxpayers being forced to pay for the student loans of another generation. Taxation of this variety (of which inflation is a sub-category) is neither volitional nor wise (or constitutional). And this is being done in an inflationary cycle.
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  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Or you erroneously think it doesn't. Maybe I learned by example, years ago - in church.
  9. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    There's an information asymmetry at play. I cringe at 18 year old me when I remember that I wanted to go to DeVry. Why? Because the commercials looked cutting edge and the line that said "Credits earned unlikely to transfer" didn't matter if I graduated. Of course, I know better. I don't fault people for going to a school they've heard of. When you're trying to access an education you don't even know what you don't know.
  10. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Nor do I. I do, however, fault bottom-tier schools (many of which produce bottom-tier outcomes) for charging top-tier prices. One can argue, hey, if people are willing to pay it that's on the people, but I don't see it that way because--as your example illustrates--the power of a well-crafted media strategy is often stronger and more prevalent than the available information people need in order to see through it.
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  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    When people talk about the government giving others "free things," the real issue isn't the "free things." It's the "others."
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  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I think he's pointing out the hypocrisy of those who say they follow the bible when they clearly do not.

    He's not using the bible to support his own argument.
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  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks, Rich.
  14. Michael Burgos

    Michael Burgos Active Member

    The reference to "free money" is a reference to my former comment. And there's nothing hypocritical about following the Bible while disagreeing with a government handout.
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Saying the opposite thing isn't the same as a counter-argument.

    People have been posting tons of references in the bible about forgiving debt. One can't be a devotee of the bible and oppose this initiative. If one does, one is either a hypocrite or heretic. Choose.
  16. Tireman 44444

    Tireman 44444 Well-Known Member

    Not that I disagree, but what bottom tiered schools would you mean?
  17. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I didn't specify there as I avoid that sort of thing so I don't cause a rift. Some people may feel attacked if the school they went with is mentioned in that regard and it could get out of hand. But it's one of those things that's deducible from considering reputations, outcomes, and tuition prices.
  18. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    For the traditional top universities (ivy leagues, Stanford, MIT, etc), the tuition is irrelevant. Many of them have policies or foundations in place that limit those paying tuition, to only those who can afford it. Also worth noting that they certainly do not have high admission rates, many are around 5%.

    The challenge though is that those schools are effectively outliers when talking about higher education and tuition debt. They serve a small section of population and statistically, a frequently privileged population. Just the New York SUNY system, statistically, creates more social-economic mobility then the entire Ivy League system combined.
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Sometimes. But only sometimes.
  20. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    As a non-devotee of the Bible, it's pretty obvious to me that believing in mercy and the forgiveness of debt does not mean always supporting every single debt forgiveness initiative, all the time, always, without any exception no matter the circumstances and no matter the concequences.

    In order to illustrate, please humor me while I present an absurdist thought experiment. Let's say, hypothetically, that forgiving student loans resulted in a chain reaction that caused every last human being on earth to die slowly of a horrific, painful disease. Would it still be the loving, kind, or even Christian thing to ignore the devastating result and forgive those loans?

    That's obviously extreme, so let's mentally scale that back, a lot. There are potentially negative consequences to this policy, as there always are to every policy, even if we believe that the intentions are good. Good intentions don't guarantee good results. At some point, the accumulation of unintended consequences are so bad that they outweigh any positives achieved by the initial action.

    Is a person greedy, selfish, unmerciful, un-whatever if they look at the situation holistically and are convinced that it would result in more bad than good?
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