Republicans still believe Trump's election loss was the result of a rigged election

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Bill Huffman, Apr 12, 2021.

  1. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Silly conspiracy theories are always going to look this way when they are being debunked.

    Your whole idea of conspiracy theories is illogical. I could sit here and come up with 10 conspiracy theories in 15 minutes. They do not have to be "investigated". That is really illogical. That really has little to do with the reality of the situation. The reality is that a conspiracy theory without any evidence is nothing but an idea at best and a stupid lie at worst. This idea that conspiracy theories need to be investigated leads to a never ending detachment from reality. The conspiracy theories must be proven with evidence which is the job of the person pushing the conspiracy theory, not the job of others.
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Regarding this Cyber Ninja shame audit finishing up in Arizona, I thought it might be fun to speculate a bit on what the report might claim. I'm convinced that it will attempt to further Trump's Big Lie somehow. Cyber Ninja's is just making too much money off this deal to not push it further into other states, if possible. Slightly less sure that it will involve dishonesty but I'm guessing that it probably will involve some tampering with the ballots, tampering with the voting machines, and/or straight up lying about the findings. Almost a quarter of Republicans believe in at least part of the QANON conspiracy. We might see some merging/overlapping of those two conspiracies.

    Whatever nonsense Cyber Ninjas comes up with, I'm sure that Trump will embrace it and push it.
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Bill, its a free country, what is silly to one person may not be silly to another.
    As if it never happened that Conspiracy theories that were true.


    Cancer-Causing Vaccines

    The theory:
    ● People may have gotten a cancer-causing virus from contaminated polio vaccines
    What really happened:
    ● Simian Virus 40 was first found in monkeys in 1960
    ○ Monkey kidney cell cultures were used to produce the vaccine
    ○ The SV40 virus has been linked to many human cancers including childhood leukemia, lung cancer, bone cancer and Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma
    ■ While SV40 has been found in these cancers, it there is debate as the whether or not the virus actually causes cancer
    ○ Shortly after it’s discovery, scientists discovered SV40 contaminated some polio vaccines
    ■ It was reportedly removed from all vaccines in 1963
    ● An estimated 10-30 million people may have been exposed to SV40 after receiving polio vaccines in the 1950s and 1960s
    ○ More than 98 million people received polio vaccines before the contamination was discovered and eliminated
    Why we know about it:
    ● The CDC admitted to SV40 contamination in polio vaccines
    ○ In 2013, the CDC abruptly took down its fact sheet on the subject
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2021
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    If one has to go back to 1960 to find an example of a conspiracy theory that turned out to be true (arguably this is not even one since I see no conspiracy and you definitely didn't explain any conspiracy) Then it just goes to shows how weak your argument is that it is wise to believe silly conspiracies.
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I also think that some conspiracy theories are silly but some I think are not silly and serve important purpose.
    And some get upgraded from theory to reality.
    I didn't search chronologically nor excessively simply posted one sample that came first in a search.
    The link provides additional details.

    Conspiracy theory's such as government hiding UFO data.
    Well some is being released and its a step forward.
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Edward Snowden would like a word.
    Vonnegut likes this.
  7. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    What conspiracy theory was proven true by Edward Snowden?
  8. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The absolute worst part of all of this is that you can point out the corruption in plain sight and people you show it to will call you crazy.
    Truth is not a "Conspiracy Theory".
    A lot of times a conspiracy theory is an opposed view of the mainstream drive-by media.
    Read George Orwells "Animal Farm" and you start to see things today in a different light.
    Also beside the awakening from sleeping and making people think numerous conspiracy theories exposed and put to rest.

    As to Snowden, didn't he provided info on conspiracy of surveillance?
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That the NSA was conducting mass surveillance on millions of Americans.
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I never heard that was a conspiracy. I thought it was a known fact that was the outcome of the law passed after 9/11/2001?

    Lerner, there is nothing conspiratorial about vaccines that you pointed out. Just because scientists find and fix something or improve something, it doesn't mean a conspiracy.

    The important point is that it is the responsibility of people telling something to prove their statement true. Just because their statement is a conspiracy it does NOT mean that it must be investigated and proven false. Especially when the person making the statement is a pathological liar that has told over 30,000 public false or misleading statements in just four years.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2021
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Its important to say that because of the Polio vaccine, the U.S. has been virtually “polio-free” for 30 years, indicates the CDC, though “the disease still occurs in other parts of the world.”
    I'm not anti vaccine.

    The conspiracy in this issue is while the SV40 was removed from the polio vaccines by 1963, the contaminated vaccines were not recalled and tens of millions of Americans got contaminated vaccines even after the new batches no longer contained the SV40 monkey virus. Was this an oversight or a conspiracy ?

    "In reality it’s difficult, if not impossible, for scientists to definitively rule out that a vaccine causes a disease. The limited studies only show cancer was caused in rodents.
    If the polio vaccine contaminated with SV40 did cause cancer, scientists would expect to see an increased risk of cancer in the population of people who received the vaccine.
    But just because they didn’t find this effect in the group doesn’t rule out the possibility that some select individuals did develop cancer because of the vaccine"
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2021
  12. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Whatever other foolishness may be swirling around, the solid fact remains that Donald Trump lost a free and fair election in 2020 and J.R. Biden is the President of the United States.
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    It seems to me that what is going on here is an attempt to fabricate a conspiracy controversy after the fact.

    What exactly is the conspiracy that is being alleged here? If what you are saying is that there was a conspiracy raging back in the 1960's that the polio vaccine would kill you or cause cancer then just say that. If that is what you are trying to say then you have not proven that conspiracy to be true.

    Listen Lerner, you are free to believe in whatever you want. I think it is unwise to believe in conspiracies without evidence. You seem to be more inclined to toy with conspiracies. But, you don't believe in all. For example, you say you don't believe in QANON or the Big Lie (although you did say no evidence "So far" or something along those lines). That is all fine for you. I just think it is being a bit naïve.
  14. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    So Bill do I understand you correctly you are saying that continuing vaccinating people with contaminated valence is not a conspiracy?
    Instead you are shifting the blame to some way inventing conspiracy.
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This made little sense to me.

    You seem to be claiming something about someone contaminating vaccines on purpose, and you think this was proven true?

    Like I asked before, you have not been clear what you are claiming the conspiracy was. Please state clearly what was the conspiracy that you are alleging was proven true.
  16. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    No that's not what I'm saying, and I think you know it.
    What I'm saying is that after it was discovered that the distributed and administered to US population Polio vaccines are contaminated the coverup was
    no one recalled the contaminated vaccines, those continued to be administered.

    The contaminated vaccines should have been recalled, or properly disposed but definitely not administered to the population.
    The vaccine stored in freezer has a shelf life of 2 years.
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I do not know it! How could I know what the hell you are talking about if you don't say it!!! You want me to go back and look at how many times I asked you what the conspiracy was that you were claiming?

    I spent about 1 minute researching your claim and found this.

    Some of the polio vaccine administered from 1955–1963 was contaminated with a virus, called simian virus 40 (SV40). The virus came from the monkey kidney cell cultures used to produce the vaccine. Most, but not all, of the contamination was in the inactivated polio vaccine (IPV). Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines. Researchers have long wondered about the effects of the contaminated vaccine on people who received it. Although SV40 has biological properties consistent with a cancer-causing virus, it has not been conclusively established whether it might have caused cancer in humans. Studies of groups of people who received polio vaccine during 1955–1963 provide evidence of no increased cancer risk. However, because these epidemiologic studies are sufficiently flawed, the Institute of Medicine's Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence was inadequate to conclude whether or not the contaminated polio vaccine caused cancer. In light of the biological evidence supporting the theory that SV40-contamination of polio vaccines could contribute to human cancers, the committee recommends continued public health attention in the form of policy analysis, communication, and targeted biological research.
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Once the contamination was recognized, steps were taken to eliminate it from future vaccines.

    Bingo. Future vaccines not the ones that already in storage distributes.
    The future vaccines came out in 1963.
    The few years between the time when contamination was discovered instead of recalling the contaminated vaccines the vaccination of people continued even do they knew the vaccine is contaminated.
  19. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Here's the definition of conspiracy.
    1. The act of two or more persons, called conspirators, working secretly to obtain some goal, usually understood with negative connotations.
    What was the evil plan? What was the conspiracy? You have not described a conspiracy. You appear to only be asserting that a mistake was made. I do not grant you even that. You yourself pointed to a fact check,,
    that said cancer was not caused by it. What was the mistake if no one got cancer? Now, I grant you that based on the way things seem to work in 2021 I would expect a recall of the vaccine to be done out of an abundance of caution if this took place in 2021 but, this took place back in the 60's. Vaccines were new back then. There were different considerations that we may not be aware of. Things probably worked differently. That isn't even worth really getting into further detail though until you explain what the conspiracy was.
  20. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    No mistake was made, the recall should have happened, the manufacturer should have taken responsibility recalling contaminated vaccines.
    Medical professionals continued to administer tainted vaccines until 1963, according to Michael E. Horwin writing for the Albany Law Journal of Science and Technology in 2003. And even after 1961, the American Journal of Cancer found contaminated oral vaccines.

    You need something more sinister then how about Under the code name "MKUltra when Researchers tested the effects of hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, torture, and, most memorably, LSD, on US and Canadian citizens. Most had no idea.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2021

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