Question about degree abbreviations

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 16, 2022.

  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I've always thought it interesting that an MDiv requires the same number of credits as a JD. Those pastors are getting ripped off!

    It would have made more sense for the first degree in law to be a three year Juris Master, with the JD just being an optional doctoral dissertation following it for those who want to take on the academic side of law.

    But no one asked me. ;)
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  2. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Somewhere I got the impression that the Gospel of John says that true servants do not take titles to themselves. Am I missing something?
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Besides, Those M.Div. folks usually have ministry titles. "Father", "Reverend", "Bishop" even "Holiness". I don't suppose they miss being mere "Doctors".
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Honestly, Nosborne - who goes to school to be a SERVANT? There's Butler School, I guess - I've seen articles - but the only title you get is your last name.
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  5. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    As to Law...I have stated elsewhere that I didn't think that there is such a subject as "jurisprudence" in the American legal academy. There are related academic disciplines such as government, philosophy, history and I suppose the social sciences. There is (just barely) a genuine Ph.D. in law available in the U.S. but it's rare for an American legal academic to earn it or even to earn the J.S.D. degree. All of this is because the U.S. is legally thoroughly positivist.

    If this is so, there is no need for any academic degree beyond the professional one, the so-called J.D. plus perhaps a very limited Masters program or two for professional technical specializations. There is literally nothing to study.

    Over the last ten years or so, however, I've shifted my position a bit. It seems that there ARE actual issues in jurisprudence that might benefit from neutral academic research and writing.

    The recent Dobbs decision, which is being badly mis-understood by virtually everyone who hasn't read it with an open mind, suggests a fruitful area of research. I'm talking about the proper role of an independent judiciary in addressing social issues of widespread importance in the absence of legislation. This is by no means a new debate. From Marbury in 1803 though Dred Scott, Lincoln's first inaugural address, the New Deal and the Dobbs opinion, we have wrestled with the proper exercise of judicial authority. There's some good stuff here.
  6. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Hm. Thinking about it...Dobbs could be interpreted as a victory of positivism over natural law. Interesting. I did not pass that double credit course in jurisprudence for the University of London but that doesn't mean that I learned nothing from the effort.
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  7. Alpine

    Alpine Active Member

    Funny thing, my son told me the same thing this week. He failed a University course but said that he learned the most from that course.
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  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I learned a ton in my high school psychology class, much of which I remember to this day, even though I utterly flunked it along with most of the rest of my classes in high school.
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  9. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    They could be Reverend Dr. or Bishop Dr.
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Or in one case at a parish near me, "Reverend Mother", although she's an Episcopalian priest, not a Bene Gesserit.
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I remember from the past some had Grand Dr titles. :)
    Like Grand duke (feminine: grand duchess) hereditary title, used either by certain monarchs or by members of certain monarchs' families.
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  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Those "Grand PhD" degrees we used to see around here were pretty well all um... unaccredited, unofficial and un-everything else. They were put out by (mostly) Russian-orbit mills - and one supposedly Belgian outfit - for sale world-wide. Those "Grand PhDs" were largely a bogus edition of the (genuine) Russian higher doctoral award 'Kandidat Nauk.'

    Page about the 'real thing' here:
    Old thread about the bogus thing here:

    2005 - Uncle Janko and Stanislav - both in fine form. :)
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
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  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    The Belgian (?) thingy noted above had a V.P. of US operations - a certain Rev. Dr. Academician Prof. so-and-so from Kentucky, who (I think) is now a preacher, with a congregation in the Philippines. He was a serial purveyor of many um - educational opportunities with no recognized accreditation. Colorful dude. He used to post here under a couple-three names. :)

    I love this old stuff - so many memories... Thanks, Lerner.
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  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    None of this is helping me nail down my knighthood, or even a CBE.
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  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Here's an answer, Rich. (Plain text so I don't help them with SEO)

    Cheap, too. Options available by the ton. Coat of Arms etc. Deed to a little piece of land. Title of Count / Countess available too. Matching titles, one for you, one for Mrs. Douglas, if she'd like one. Just sayin'. Not recommendin'. I know you don't go in for unreal stuff.

    Although I think they've discontinued the practice now, Open International University of Complementary Medicine (Sri Lanka) used to sell Knighthoods for about $400. They also sold Albert Schweitzer prizes too -- along with their Doctorates. They seem to have stopped a lot of that stuff since the death of their Founder, Prof. Dr. Sir Anton Jayasuriya some years ago. (He WAS a real M.D. - UK trained IIRC).

    There are pages of places that will oblige. Not, of course recommending any. I know you like to "keep it real.". :)

    CBE? If you were a Brit, you could probably get one for being a really good guitar player...
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2022
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  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Great heavens. Does Sealand still exist?
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    According to the webpage, yes.

    As of last Friday, from the news section on the site:

    "2 Sealand nobles were at the top of the UK album charts! Congrats Baron Von Ed Sheeran & Count Richard Barbieri of Porcupine Tree, proud to have you guys on the team"
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Nah. I've got hands like feet and a leaden ear.
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Non-Brits can receive these awards. Bob Geldof, Ronald Reagan, and Rudy Giuliani have all received knighthoods from the Crown. As they are not subjects of the queen, their knighthoods are considered "honorary." Thus, they can use the post-nominal initials (KBE, Kt, etc., depending on the nature of their knighthoods), but are not addressed as "Sir." For some reason, Geldof often gets called "Sir Bob." His wife is not entitled to the courtesy title, "Lady Geldof."

    Non-Brits who are subjects of the queen can be knighted. If so, they are styled "Sir." Sidney Poitier is an example.

    In a recent interview, Giuliani spoke cluelessly about his (awarded after 9/11). He demonstrated ignorance of the award.

    Honorary knighthoods can be converted if the recipient subsequently becomes a subject of the queen.

    All of this applies to women, too, with a couple of exceptions. The general studies version of the knighthoods, the Knight Bachelor (where the person is knighted but not appointed as a member of an order of chivalry) is not awarded to women. Women who are knighted as Dames are also appointed to an order of chivalry. Such a woman becomes a Dame Commander (like a Knight Commander), the post-nominal of which is DBE. (The Knight Bachelor doesn't really come with a post-nominal--they use any others they've been previously awarded--although some use "Kt." Thus, Paul McCartney is "Sir Paul McCartney, MBE" and Elton John is "Sir Elton John, CBE."

    The other exception is the spouse's courtesy title. Spouses of knights are referred to as "Lady." But male spouses of Dames have no comparable courtesy title.

    Sometimes, knights are elevated to become peers (usually, life peers--their titles end with them are not not inherited by their issuance). Laurence Olivier was first knighted ("Sir Laurence") and then later made a baron ("Lord Olivier"). Andrew Lloyd Webber was, too (going from "Sir Andrew" to "the Lord Lloyd Webber."

    Other times, peerages can be awarded to someone who has received no previous heraldic awards. Margaret Thatcher was elevated to the peerage in her own right (her husband had been previously elevated, but Thatcher didn't use the courtesy title that came with that) after leaving her post as Prime Minister. As a life peer, she was eligible to then sit in the House of Lords and was no longer allowed to be a member of the House of Commons (which she led as PM). Winston Churchill declined a peerage for just that reason, wanting instead to remain in the House of Commons. (A knighthood, which Sir Winston had, doesn't disqualify one from the House of Commons like a peerage does. And hereditary peers are no longer, for the most part, seated in the House of Lords.)

    There are even higher orders and honors, such as the Companion of Honor and the Order of the Garter. Then there are also higher ranks of nobility, such as earl, viscount, marquess, duke, etc.

    Okay, not exactly Debrett's, but that's what I know. Just waiting by the phone....
    Johann likes this.
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    That's plenty, Rich. I AM a subject of Her Majesty -- and I know 'way less than you do. :)

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