People with education degrees looked upon with scorn? Not just DL but B&M too.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by SurfDoctor, Aug 24, 2011.

  1. mattbrent

    mattbrent Active Member

    Perhaps it's my ignorance, but I always thought an MEd/MSEd/MAEd was kind of like our version of an MBA...

    I have an MSEd from Walden. While it wasn't easy by any means, I do think it was easier than the MA I did with WNMU. However, I'd say that's because the fields are completely separately. My MSEd was all about application of theory and such, whereas the MA involved my own research and analysis.

    I think one thing that people misunderstand is that, at least for teaching, a grad degree in education does NOT make one a better teacher. Sure, it can help, but it definitely takes more than just a degree. There are awesome teachers out there with only an undergrad degree. Still, as you all have mentioned, education majors and teachers aren't usually at the top of their classes. I was, and I'll gladly brag about that! But I do have colleagues who can't write a sentence to save their lives.

    One of my fears is that the for-profit schools who accept everyone will just churn out more incompetent folks who have no business being in a classroom. I wish I could say great things about the students I've had in my grad classes with a certain online university, but the really good ones are few and far between.

  2. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member

    I think this is what is happening now. Of course, mixed in with all the dolts are a few truly talented teachers.
  3. 03310151

    03310151 New Member

    Of course I know everyone on here is damn near genius level, especially people who are in the education field ;)

    I never said that all Ed people are dolts. Never said people not in STEM were stupid either. It takes to long to caveat every post you make to ensure nobody takes what is said personally.

    Did not mean to offend you guys.
  4. CalDog

    CalDog New Member

    I did not take offense; I just thought it was interesting that some non-STEM fields had relatively high SAT scores.

    Actually, the full SAT data support your original assertion that "Your best and brightest are going into STEM". A closer look at the SAT data shows that fields like languages and philosophy attract high-scoring undergraduates -- but not very of them. The number of high-scoring STEM majors is much greater.

    So it's probably true that the highest-scoring undergraduates do go disproportionately into STEM fields.

    Now, the assertion that I would question is your followup about STEM fields: "you know, where the money is." I suspect you would find that most math or physical science majors aren't in it for the money. The most marketable undergraduate STEM degrees are in engineering, and while engineers certainly tend to be employable, the compensation is not especially lucrative for most. Of course, simply being employable counts for something in the present economy.
  5. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member

    I was not offended at all. No problem here.
  6. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member

    Unless your are currently working as a petroleum engineer.
  7. friartuck

    friartuck New Member

    Here's some information on GRE scores by grad students in various areas. Education grad student's aren't impressive on balance, but then again neither are accountants....and waaay down at the bottom of the list are social work grad students.

    Up top are physics, engineering, etc.... who are all unqualified to teach high schoolers (unless they've taken ed courses).
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2011
  8. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Damn, you beat me to it! BTW - Don't forget Vinipink, who is an MBA to the third power.
  9. foobar

    foobar Member

    Average GMAT for accounting majors: 520
    Average GMAT for education majors: 482

    This is a test where the best education majors are fairly represented while many of the best accounting majors don't take the exam (Many MS Accounting programs will waive the GMAT based on the undergraduate accounting gpa).

    I suspect that the lower gpa education majors would choose not to spend $250 to take a test widely perceived as difficult for admission to a degree program that is also widely perceived to be more difficult than their undergraduate major.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2011
  10. foobar

    foobar Member

    In my B&M doctoral program (business) we were allowed to take statistics courses in any department in the university EXCEPT the college of education. We were told that any of us could teach their stats courses.

    With a few exceptions, my conversations with education doctorate holders and students have been consistent with this notion.
  11. SurfDoctor

    SurfDoctor Moderator Staff Member

    Not so with the stats class I just endured.
  12. Psydoc

    Psydoc New Member

    Very few people do styx now, they use SPSS or some other package and then try to interpret the data. Performing a binomial analysis or a regression analysis would be out of the question. Oh, well, all people are created equal. NOT!
  13. edowave

    edowave Active Member

    A classmate of mine at UF mentioned he had an M.Ed from Havard. I thought that was strange since I knew he worked in consulting and his area was in aquatic biotechnology. I asked him if did it because he thought about become a teacher. His response was "No, I just wanted the Harvard name on my resume so I did the easiest thing there."

    I think someone one this board noted before the Harvard education classes were not as much work as the Havard Extension courses.
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I guess I should have gone there. My MA in Ed Tech from GW required so much work I had to retake two courses when I got too far behind, and I had a 1530 GRE and a 99th percentile Miller.
  15. mcjon77

    mcjon77 Member

    Harvard's Graduate School of Education is interesting. On one hand, their EdM programs (Harvard's abreviation for the MEd) has an ~55% acceptance rate,the highest of any school in the university. On the other hand, their EdD program has an acceptance rate of < 4%, which is lower than most other programs in the university, including the Undergraduate College, the Law School, and the Business School. IIRC, one of the most selective programs on campus was the PhD in English program. The acceptance rate was < 2%.

    Either way, the EdM program has some VERY cool areas of specialization available.
  16. 03310151

    03310151 New Member

    The low acceptance rates are probably becuase there are few open spots in those programs and not an indicator of the rigor of the program. Maybe.
  17. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

    Hmmmmm... could that be an indication that stats is less important in the education field than it is in business???? Stats is huge part of a business degree, but a small part of an education degree. So, how about ya'll compare apples to apples next time instead of implying that every education program is weak because it doesn't concentrate on the areas that business programs do. That would be like a criminal justice major saying that business programs are lacking because they barely even touch upon crime mapping techniques or crime prevention through environmental design. Way to go!

    Oh, and by the way, I am not allowed to take ANY elective class from ANY other program for my education degree. So, by applying your rationale, my education program is somehow more rigorous than ANY other program in my entire institution since I am not allowed to take those courses as electives.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 25, 2011
  18. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

    Really? Because I had a friend one time who told me that he went to University of Florida because all they do is drink and party, and the courses are a joke. That holds about as much water as your comment.
  19. not4profit

    not4profit Active Member

  20. mdwolfsong

    mdwolfsong New Member

    You can't judge whether a person is "bright" on his/her SAT scores. Some people are highly intelligent and creative, but freak out when taking standardized tests. It would be interesting to read a study about the folks who end up in Education doctoral programs to see if they have similar personality traits and learning styles.

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