Online DBA $12,000 TOTAL fee

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Acolyte, Aug 11, 2021.

  1. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Hmmmmm. Yeah, that's interesting. Hmmmmmm...

    When there are too many questions there is only one thing to do: RUN!
  2. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    Oof... that's the same reason I avoided the as-of-yet-unnamed Chinese university program. The final diploma was written as "Executive DBA Certificate" while very specifically avoiding using the word "Doctor" or "Doctorate" or "Degree." The transcript said "Doctorate" at some point, but still called it a certificate, not a degree.
  3. Johann766

    Johann766 Active Member

    So all that infamous Monterrey institute did was award propio degrees based on a properly recognised mexican university in the USA?
  4. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No. It never awarded degrees. I don't think it even enrolled any students. It came and went very quickly.

    But yes, that was the model, long before anyone ever used the term proprio.

    But no, because the Monterrey Institute was recognized specifically as a part of the CEU by the IHU which, at that time, was one of several authoritative sources for determining the comparability of degrees issued by foreign schools.
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Mexico's education system is similar to Spain's. The minister of education recognizes only certain degrees from granting universities, CEU has the right to grant a degree but it might or might not be recognized by the minister. Normally, non recognized degrees are just sold as diplomas. A non recognized PhD or Masters has little value for a local person because you cannot get a cedula (government recognized credential) and there fore not eligible for many jobs that require this level of training.
    The market for Azteca's online PhD is mainly foreigners, the school appears as a recognized university but the PhD itself is non recognized. However, if I am going to use it in Africa, this might not matter as long as my local government might recognize it because it appears it a UNESCO book.
    The same with this DBA from Spain, it is unlikely that spanish residents take this program, it has no use in Spain as you need the official document to apply for academic positions or government jobs that require a doctorate. This DBA seems to be directed towards foreigners that might be happy with a DBA from a recognized university but not a recognized degree.
    I believe CEU's problem was not the fact that they were offering degrees that were not recognized but the fact that were selling them to Americans without a license in the US. The CEU operation was similar to Azteca except that this last one is smart and is not trying to sell it to Americans but to people in Africa, Middle East, etc.
  6. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Yes. And who ratted them out to the state of Florida? A disgruntled, unpaid intern who was providing design support in return for a tuition-free degree. Disgruntled because it soon became obvious the operators had no desire to run it legitimately. This got them canned and the president (who was a highly placed administrator of a Cal State school) in some hot water. Lots of good lessons learned from that one.
  7. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Some evaluators have recognized Azteca's propio degrees as coming from a regionally accredited institution but as non-accredited programs. The semantics of what is accepted from one country to another varies. There are also some that will evaluate a propio as an accredited degree regardless of government recognition if it comes from an accredited school but their evaluation services won't likely carry as much weight as those from NACES or other highly recognized evaluators based on the country.

    Another odd thing that I have found out about federal government careers in the USA is that they consider pre-accredited university degrees for employment. If pre-accredited degrees are honored, I'm sure foreign equivalent degrees with recognition of an accredited university without program accreditation/recognition will be also.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'm not so sure. That's a big leap. The first case is domestic - the second is foreign. As foreign degrees, wouldn't they be subject to evaluation - by whichever agencies the government accepts / requires? If so, (and I'm pretty sure it is) YMMV - a lot.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  9. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Yes the USA federal government will require a foreign evaluation for foreign degrees. I'm not sure if they are specific on which evaluator one must use. You are right that YMMV and there will always be exceptions to the rule. I believe they will also count non accredited degrees (state approved/not on seeking accreditation list) or have in the past but for professional development and miscellaneous sections instead of educational degree credentials.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2022
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    First, most jobs--outside of licensed professions--do not have a specific educational requirement. For those that do--or for those who will assign the applicant a higher grade for having achieved a certain degree level--foreign degrees are acceptable, provided they're accompanied by a foreign credential evaluation (a successful one). No, they do not specify which evaluation agency must be used.

    Not exactly. The federal government, unlike the military, does not keep a record of your educational accomplishments. They are considered on a case-by-case basis when applying for positions. Thus, there is no bucket for degrees and another bucket for "professional development" and the like. Instead, the applicant enters it on the resume and HR asks for the appropriate documentation to support it, if needed. Each and every time you apply for a job.

    I guess an applicant could put such a degree down on the application in the additional training section, but this would likely get the application thrown out for trying to "back door" the questioned credential by slipping it into a different section of the application. Or, HR might ask that either the proper support be provided or, absent that, that the applicant remove the reference. Or, it could slip through unnoticed. But not because it was okay to list a degree there, even if it came from an unaccredited source. Humans make errors all the time.
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Azteca is selling degrees so there is a market for these credentials. The world is changing very fast so I don't think these schools will survive, we are seeing some traditional schools offering EdD or DBAs with no dissertation or two year programs. After the pandemic, the line between online and on campus is becoming very thin, most schools now offer hybrid courses and programs so there will some point that most schools would offer PhDs in online format. As few tenure track are available, those are just available for those that complete PhDs from top schools and have a good publication record.
  12. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    This still boggles my mind. I don't have a PhD or an EdD, so perhaps I shouldn't be so judgemental, but if the purpose of the degree is to train you to be a researcher and you can graduate in 2 years without having proved you can produce original research (whether applied like in an EdD or theoretical like in a PhD), how can they call it a research doctorate?!
    cacoleman1983 likes this.
  13. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Well-Known Member

    Universities are businesses that have continued to decline in enrollment numbers because everything can be learned through e-learning platforms outside of the traditional educational institutions. Despite being research doctorates, programs are being revamped in order to placate the students and earn more revenue as well as increase graduation rates. The days of 4+ years of doctoral work above a Masters are coming to an end. I'm still surprised over the DHA program from Virginia University of Lynchburg that is only one year. I applied and was accepted although I never started because of a lack of funding on my part.

    Most of these new graduate programs would automatically be considered as a diploma mill or disapproved entirely by legitimate accreditation agencies 20 years ago. Now we have prior learning assessment programs granting credit based on life experience and a collection of works that can be gained from MOOCs and professional certifications. This is rarely advertised by schools but they have that policy for those who know how to work the system like we do.
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes but there is the business aspect. Many Universities offer the executive doctorate (e.g. DBA) that is meant to be completed fast with light research requirements and the PhD with more strict research requirements and full time. Check the University of Alberta as an example. It is all about business and money, faculty need research students to apply for research grants and to help them to publish papers, as very few register in research programs nowadays, the strategy is to upgrade you from a Masters to a DBA to profit from your ego so you can be called Dr. but I will call you DBA so at the time of hiring tenure track faculty, I can still rule you out because your doctorate is not strong enough. It is a game of academia, or like some people say, the myth of academia.
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Two years seems abrupt.

    Traditionally, the "taught" doctorate in the US was made up of a couple (or more) years of coursework, followed by a comprehensive exam and then the dissertation. We've seen the comprehensive disappear in some situations--I never had one. There are now some doctoral programs that wrap the dissertation process around the coursework so that the candidate finishes both simultaneously. Perhaps that's why they can do it in two years. Also, the research requirement is sometimes harder to discern when it is presented this way, as we've seen in some discussion threads on this board.

    Doing courses and the dissertation along the way, can a research doctorate be done in two years? I think "yes." But it would be very hard in one way--the overall load--and easier in another--the dissertation being done along the way instead of a pass/fail shocker at the end.

    As for a DBA or EdD with no research requirement--practical or scholarly--I just don't accept that.
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It depends, there is a market of people that are professional adjuncts that do not need research skills as they are just teaching undergraduate courses but need the doctorate tag just to remain employable. There is also another market of people that might have a masters in a non business or education related subject and prefer the short DBA or EdD jut to qualify for adjunct or full time employment outside academics, they might be fine with a second masters but if you can get the doctorate with the same effort then this last one might be a good option.
    Universities can invent any other degree to attract students into a terminal degree, the can call it executive DBA, DMngt, DHA, etc.
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This is why the Doctor of Arts degree was created. (It still had a research component, but it focused on practical projects and pedagogy instead of empirical research.) It went nowhere. The EdD and the DBA are research degrees normally focused on advancing practice, not scholarship.

    I feel if schools want to award doctorates without a research component....they shouldn't. There's no justification for its absence.

    A doctorate without an original contribution to practice or scholarship is just another master's.

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