Oh yea, O yea. Draw near, as 'tis the Season for (DEAC) Speculation....

At $4k, I can understand how there might be a smidgeon of talking-up. At $19K there shouldn't be any needed. However, all needed for UoTP is: where the school is, the name of the accreditor, maybe a peek at the transcript and the url. No exaggeration or grey areas whatsoever.

That's just my two cents. I don't expect you to agree and I'm not going to belabour the point (if I still have one) any further. Just this: If I wanted a degree from a DEAC-accredited school, earning one for $4K is a WAY better deal than one meeting the same standards for $19K. At my local college, some students carried protest signs, during a recent faculty strike. They read "College is not a brand. Students are not ATMs." I believe that.

J.

 

There are a lot of incomprehensible things about Canada, but I think there are more in the US. Mostly centered around 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. If they televised the Grey Cup for free, I wouldn't watch it. I live less than 100 yards from a CFL (i.e. minimum-wage league) stadium and I wouldn't go there to see ANY game - even for free. We did have $1 bills up to some time in the 70s, when we switched to 'loonies' - the $1 coin with a loon design. We also had $2 bills, replaced with a coin. We're told the coins cost more to produce, but they last far longer and thus save money. Another lie, probably, but that one doesn't really bother me.

And why we have a leader who wastes his time preaching human rights to tin-pot dictators who don't give a sh*!, I have no idea. But all leaders do things I don't understand. In all, this leader of ours appears far less pernicious than several of his contemporaries. We're not so different to many folks south of the border. Many of us think of themselves as unarmed Americans with health care.

J.

 

As far as DEAC or other NA degrees go, the situation is a little like UK. UK-NARIC (the official evaluating agency) refuses to evaluate any American NA degrees. Similarly, in Canada, there's only one level of degree-granting, generally equivalent to RA in the US. No "second tier" so to speak, so nothing comparable to NA in Canadian or British universities. In UK, schools, employers etc. are not bound by NARIC's rule. They can make individual decisions as they please. Here, employers can make up their own minds, but it seems some professional associations do NOT like them and refuse to accept them. A while ago, our distinguished member Stanislav recounted the case of a person who was going to lose her job over a DETC degree; she had been hired and was doing great work, but the Association that governed entry refused to accept her DEAC degree, even though the requirement was "a degree accredited in the State where it was awarded" or similar words. A lawyer was engaged and the other side folded. The lady has her job and was admitted to the Association - no ifs or buts.

I don't agree with the stinky attitude on NA degrees, but I think I understand it. Academic xenophobia. "We don't have a different level of degree like that, so it can't be right. Let's all shun it together!"

J.

 

Yeah, they definitely rolled snake eyes on that one. All the warning signs for ACICS were there, I'm surprised that so many schools either didn't heed them, or decided to go down with the ship.

I've always liked DETC/DEAC, I think they fill a niche, and some of their schools have interesting programs. What's surprised me is the cost of most of the schools; I have no idea why someone would drop $15-20K for a DEAC M.B.A. program when you can get one for less than $10K at University of Texas-Permian Basin that's RA and AACSB.

I certainly don't expect all DEAC schools to have free programs like UotP or very low cost like Nations, but I think charging RA prices is a losing marketing strategy that will come back to bite them as more and more RA schools offer 100% online programs.

 

But a live feed from the Oval Office - yeah, I might watch that... :smile:

J.

 

I adjuncted for Meritus, and I saw no evidence it was ever DETC-accredited. It was New Brunswick-authorized. If anything, it would make much more sense for a University of Phoenix clone to be RA.
There are two of these NB private schools still around, namely Yorkville U. and University of Fredericton. Neither is DEAC.

 

"Institution recognized and authorized to grant diplomas or degrees in its own jurisdiction". I will never forget that line. As a result of our saga, they slightly changed that policy, adding "evaluated by World Education Services as recognized in Canada" - which means RA. Oh well, my friend still has her registration card and can finish her career and earn a pension with dignity. It's appalling that these onerous rules are for ECE profession - most ECEs are underpaid workers in, ironically, overpriced private daycares. They manage to have less foreign-trained members than the lawyers and the physicians - under 3%, when foreign-born population in Toronto is almost 50%. Diversity our strength. I toyed with the idea to write to the Fairness Commissioner about how their process is rigged, but didn't find energy.

 

I'm not actually disagreeing though. I'm simply offering a different perspective. I agree that the UofA situation shouldn't require dressing, but "shouldn't" and actual are different situations. I just think it's important to look at this from the other side as well, the side that isn't familiar, and acknowledge that they are likely to see things differently than we will. You and I and long-time posters here would know what these things are and not even think twice about it, but the average HR department worker who is only familiar with a very small scope is likely going to place more scrutiny on what they're unfamiliar with. Whether we like it or not, familar brand names make a difference often, so at least for the UofA situation it's likely to take less of an effort because of the brand name of UofA. That's something the UoTP is still working toward and may not even achieve in our lifetime.

 

I have a few loonies. I absolutely hate them. When need $1 for things, you just wind up with a pocket full of coins, walking around sounding like a vending machine guy.

No argument there. However, I'd be interested to see how a Canada with a larger, stronger military would act internationally. I say that because a lot of America's Governmental boldness is maintained by having a serious military threat in addition to stations across the globe, and I'd say that kind of power would make a lot of Governments bolder.

Why? I'm really interested to know.

I didn't fully understand Canadians gripes with Justin Trudeau until I watched a hearing where he dodged questions for an entire hour with answers that never addressed anything, and it was done in such a blatant and intelligence-insulting way that you could just hear the crowd of politicans groaning in anger and yelling more and more as time went by. If it were Russian parliament that would've definitely ended in a fist fight.

I find that the southern most areas of Canada's border Provinces feel like extensions of the United States in look and in the disposition of the people... except the Canadian side is pretty much always cleaner and the food tastes weird...

 

The big allure used to be that you could do a DETC degree at your own pace, no schedules. Over time that's become less the case as more DEAC schools have moved over to weekly scheduled-class formats. Perhaps for many schools, it's to align themselves better in preparation for a future attempt at regional accreditation. But you combine that shift with the rising costs and it may be only a matter of time until these schools price themselves out of the market. I feel like some of these schools, especially the ones with sagging enrollments but a full staff of instructors, would probably benefit a lot more from exploring the CBE route. Not exactly the same as self-paced, but a close cousin, so it would be attractive to ambitious students looking for lower entry costs, and the schools would be getting thousands of guaranteed dollars upfront for the term instead of dealing with monthly payment plans and the inevitable hassle of collections.

 

I don't think so. At approx. $20K (US) for a bachelors, it's a little less expensive than the current base systemwide in-state price at the California State University. (Only for full-time students. CSU is more expensive part-time a la carte paying by individual class.) Individual CSU campuses add local fees and there are books to factor in, so it goes higher than the base price. I suspect that the U. of Arkansas system priced their e-Versity where it is for a reason.

That's cynical.

I think that its price gives it some attractiveness. (It seems designed to be student-friendly in several ways.) I didn't post my post #6 to offend Canadians or to start fights, but because I think that a U. of Arkansas unit applying to DEAC might result in the first DEAC-accredited state university. I found that interesting and it caught my eye as perhaps the most interesting applicant on the DEAC list.

Yet Degreeinfo participants have been enrolling in DL degree programs ever since this board was alt.education.distance (20 years ago). I'm inclined to think that most employers have already come to terms with the concept of distance learning by this time.

One of the reasons why people have remained a bit leery of DL degrees is the hordes of bogus 'internet universities' out there. But in this case, the words 'University of Arkansas system' in the name pretty much guarantees a basic level of legitimacy. From the point of view of many prospective employers, the name might be more persuasive than the institutional accreditor. That's why I speculated that the primary value of DEAC accreditation in this particular case might be to make students eligible for federal financial aid.

I would speculate though that the U. of Arkansas System eVersity already has an application for RA in at HLC, or is planning to submit one soon. That based on the fact that all of the other degree-granting units of the U. of Ark. system seem to be RA.

 

Since Canada moved to more durable plastic bills, I wonder how much of a problem that really would be now? I think it might be a good test to keep an eye on the $5 Canadian bill since so many transactions there call for them. So far, I haven't come across any mangled Canadian plastic bills of any denomination.

From what I saw, he's really dishonest. Not exactly a shock of a trait for a politician, but his dodging was so incredibly annoying I wanted to slap him in the face and I'm not even Canadian. The topic had to do with members of his party(?) misusing funds. For a full hour it went like this:

Opposition: Mr. Prime Minister, can you address why (((insert politician))) used X-amount of dollars for X-reason instead of the reason it's supposed to be used for?
Trudeau: In these uncertain times, we must cling to the security of family, understanding that without family there will also be an uncertain future (and on and on)...

I listened to this, stunned.

 

This. The average person is vary of bogus "online universities", but ignorant about DEAC/RA debate, which is such a sport on this forum. "University of Arkansas System" right in the name will go a long way to reassure them. For most, it's not "20K for unaccredited/NA degree", which is expensive. It's "20K for a degree from public school" - which is not a steal but competitive. And in this case, this also happens to be a better way to look at it. The role of accreditation is to signal the degree's legitimacy; do you have any real reason to doubt the legitimacy of this one, even before DEAC let alone RA? They still need to fix the name though.

 

I heard the same clips from Harper. This seems to be the feature of the Westminster system, complete with MPs moaning in disapproval (watch any Parliament session; members of opposing party do that after EVERY. DAMN. THING anyone says). It's a non-issue, reflected in 0 attention from the press; more substantial is Liberals abandoning electoral reform or dragging feet on Missing and Murdered Aboriginal Women inquiry, Finance Minister's conflict of interest controversy, marijuana legalisation saga, ....
I'm basically a Liberal and like a lot about current Cabinet; not a big fan of Mr. Selfie himself. He appears to be a well-meaning but out of touch rich pretty boy. Then again, they are out of touch 90% of the time, regardless of the party. Hillary once got burned for stating honestly that she doesn't, really, know how the poor live - but this is just the truth for ALL of them. At the end, in Canada, the public service and entitled but basically competent Liberal machine steer the country in approximately right direction. This is much better that the phoney baloney "outsider" people and Russia installed in the White House.

 

Me: I'd bet on any school doubling their fees upon attaining RA

Heirophant: That's cynical.

Me: No -realistic. I've seen it before. And similarly, unaccredited schools doubling tuition on becoming NA - on the very day, in fact.

Heirophant: Yet Degreeinfo participants have been enrolling in DL degree programs ever since this board was alt.education.distance (20 years ago).

Me: Yes - but their diplomas don't usually say "distance" on them, or even suggest it. That's the difference. "e-Versity" pretty much screams it.

Steve Foerster: Really? Just not a gridiron football guy...or a beef with CFL?

Me: No beef with CFL - and no congrats to them on "kicking out the Americans." That's meaningless. The CFL could not field a single team without American players. Not a hope. My bitch is against professional sports in general - the very idea of paying some beefy wonk that can shoot a puck or score baskets etc. FIFTY TIMES what a doctor earns for saving lives daily. It's ridiculous to pay big money - and ridiculous to watch. Incredibly stupid for less-than-wealthy individuals to contribute to making multimillionaire team-owners etc. even richer.

You guys were talking about Trudeau - right on the money! Certainly not his father. As you said, a rich, well-spoken pretty boy. He'd do well in the entertainment or broadcast business, like that other Prime Minister's son, Ben Mulroney. I wouldn't doubt there's a job like that waiting for him, once he loses an election - whenever that happens. I'm not fond of him, but I like the competition 'way less.

Steve Foerster: "On the other hand, I'd kill the penny."

Me: We did. A couple of years back. I don't think anyone misses it. I've got 37 on top of my fridge that I'll never need ...

Cheers, people.

J.

 

It's ridiculous to pay big money - and ridiculous to watch. Incredibly stupid for less-than-wealthy individuals to contribute to making multimillionaire team-owners etc. even richer.

J.[/QUOTE]

In professional sports, the players are millionaires and the team owners are billionaires.

 

I laughed out loud. Again, I like this cabinet (and in fact one member of it sat in a row directly in front of me at a kiddo's St. Nicolas concert this Saturday), but regarding Sir Justin this is a valid point. He is a celebrity/legacy pick as a Leader (and as an MP, for that matter), so no one really knows if he has depth or expertise on any topic. Except, of course, carefully staged candid photo ops. He is a veritable Grossmeister in these.

On the other hand, no one accused Harper of being slow, so when he did that, there was no question. In fact, and this is just one example, on the topic of Sen. Mike Duffy, he just straight out lied repeatedly, and threw Nigel Wright under the bus, hard. So do not pretend that this is a Trudeau or a Liberal thing. Actually, Mr. Selfie Boy may prove to be a better PM, by the virtue of being forced by his own limitations to rely more on team work and expert advice. Harper was famously micro-managing, and no one is an expert on everything.