Not everyone is suited for college

but we knew that

Dropouts weren't prepared in first place, study finds

 

That's your reward for being an honor student! :sad:
They never gave you another option because:

(a) Someone over them would have censured them severely if they had done so - against accepted tradition etc.
(b) There was no money, glory or other reward in steering you away from college - quite the reverse.

Its been that way in your country and mine for too many years. Now we find we have to seek competent, skilled tradespeople abroad, it may be changing here. A mite late, if you ask me. :sad:

Johann

 

It’s not just school counselors, teachers and parents pushing 4 year colleges. I was rebuked for suggesting a local state supported technical college to a group of visiting high-school students at my former place of employment. My employer was in bed with the bachelor’s degree only counselors and the local university. I was also rebuked for talking to the local state supported technical college about cranking up associate degree programs that would train future industrial maintenance, operations, engineering and lab technicians for industry. The local university was thriving on bachelor level science programs that only qualified folks for technician jobs upon graduation (graduate degrees in forestry, zoology, biology, physics, etc. are usually required in those majors). Eventually the technical college did startup such programs and enrollment at the university suffered a bit.

 

This country needs highly trained workers.

For decades, the working poor have promoted getting a college education as the way to move up into the middle class (or beyond).

Diplomaism, a termed coined by David Hapgood in 1971 describes the condition of more and more increases in credentials required to do jobs. (Nursing is a good example. First, you trained on the job in a hospital. Then hospital created training programs. Then trade schools created diploma programs. Then community colleges promoted the associate's degree for RNs. Then the BSN became de rigueur. Now, many nurses practice with an MSN, and others with doctorates.)

This country doesn't have a strong qualifications framework that allows people to develop in their occupations in a structured fashion. So everyone stomps off to college (or back to college!)--even people who have no business being there.

Training people for trades via a college education is misplaced and inefficient. But if there were practice-based qualifications that formed a ladder and were universally recognized by government, employers, and society at large, many people who end up in dead-end jobs or who pump tens of thousands of dollars into higher education could enter and develop in careers in stronger, more efficient ways. And colleges and universities wouldn't be forced to become trade schools, which is the current case.

The country could do this incrementally, choosing the most critical occupations and leveraging existing trade organizations. For example, the Project Management Institute could create the standards for a ladder of project management qualifications, pairing with employers to create the standards and learning providers to deliver on them. This isn't far from what they already do, which is the point.

In fact, this would be a good job for an organization already experienced setting standards for trade schools and other tertiary institutions (like colleges and universities). This looks like a job for....DETC!

(I mean that. The Department of Education could empower DETC, which could work with PMI, accountacy boards, the ABA, and many others to create these standards and qualifications. What fun!)

 

What did Judge Smails say in Caddy Shack when Danny the Caddy (opting for a scholarship to law school) told him his grades stunk, humm?? Oh yes " The world needs ditch diggers to Dannnnny".

Not everyone that drops out of school is a loser or sub-par student. I think the guidelines and population they survey has lots to do with the result.

Everyone has strengths, I think the key is finding that program that fits who YOU are. Timing is also a big factor. The fact is many of us in society feel that an academic degree is always a safe way to go, and it reflects that you are a good member of society, and a good catch! How many times have we seen people write "I am the first in my family to get degree", I did this for mom, my wife, or family?

Long ago I was compelled to get a college degree for a few reasons, one I felt I had to get it to be the ONLY one in my family that went to college. The second reason was I dated a girl (loooong ago) who's parents used to give me the business about not going to college, and telling her in the background nothing good can come from that. He will never be anything without college.

I said I was compelled, not I started. I started when I wanted to get a degree for my OWN reasons. Had I gone to college at any other time in my life I would have surly FAILED. Why, because my heart would not have been in it.

Not everyone is ready for college right after high school, I surly was not. I joined the service and did several other things before I was ready to sit in a classroom (which I did before DE was sooooo kewl). I also lived a few years in between. During that "in between" time I matured, was ready, and wanted to go 100%.

 

When we make going to college the only way to win, not going or dropping out becomes losing.

We need a third way.

 

I was not ready for college. I wanted to learn a trade so I went to DeVry for electronics. A few years later I joined the Army and was trained to repair medical equipment. I later returned to school to get my MCSE (again a trade) with a 1 year program at the community college nights and weekends. I was luck because these were all for-credit classes. One day I looked at my boss, who was making more then me and had a degree but knew nothing about technology, and decided to get my degree. I figured it would not hurt. This as all after I was established in a career.

 

My husband wasn't ready for college. After almost a year, he just dropped out. Said he didn't have the motivation to finish and doesn't like school and has no plans to go back. Haven't heard what his plans for the future are beyond "Well, I'll stay home and clean the house while you work once you're done with school." -_-

 

It depends on what exactly we are talking about. I know without a doubt, 100% I am not cut out for regular in-class college. No way, no how, but I can do online college courses, and programs like my school Penn Foster. Number one I want to do the work when I have time, and number two I like everything organized the way they do. Study these books, study these lessons, learn them, understand them and take exams. I love that way of learning, it fits my style.
Another thing is I am learning a trade, electrical and electronics, I am personally not suited to for white collar careers such as Business or criminal justice. That certainly is just not me in any way. I want a blue collar job that you still need a degree to do. I want a job you sweat and get dirty, but you need a degree to get. That is just me though, everyone is different.

 

I have often thought of leaving my management job for something more hands on (I miss repairing things).

 

I can certainly understand that, I could not in a million years be stuck in an office type environment. Its just not me, I know it, I recognized that a LONG time ago. I want to do stuff, I want to fix stuff, I want to work with my hands. Its just who I am.

 

I do too. I worked at Uptech Computers for 5 years during high school and college and there is nothing like the feeling of fixing a few computer problems and helping people be more productive. At the end of the day I could look at 5 or 6 computers I fixed or upgraded and feel good about what I did. Of course times change and people don't really use PCs that much anymore so that job has changed to fixing iPhones and laptops.

 

Good thread!

I was in a tech prep program in high school and my sister hated it. She wanted me to go to a real school. She made me feel so bad that I started to think like her. One of my teachers was trying to get me to attend a technical school for HVAC. His brother was over the program and could get me a scholarship to help with tuition. I told him I wanted to go to a real school.

To make a long story short, five years later I went to trade school. It was down to HVAC and electrical technology and I went with the electrical program because the HVAC guy was out to lunch when I went to register.

 

I say do what you love, learn what you love, and do what you are suited to do. If I were to force my self to take business classes I would be wasting my time, and eventually would drop out. Would I like to to make 80 or 100 grand as a human resources manager, YES, but it just ain't me. I'm not that guy, I don't even own a suit, and would be MISERABLE if I had to wear one everyday to the office. I have one nice shirt, nice pants and one tie for weddings. Its who I am, which is why I am in the program, and school I'm in. Penn Foster college fits me, I call it the blue-collar college. Its no frills, bare bones and it educates you for dirty jobs. For the most part that is who they are anyway. They do have a few egg-head programs too.

 

I agree it's better to enjoy your work and learn something you enjoy. Just remember what you enjoy may not pay much and may have limited job opportunities. So understand the consequences of your decisions and live within your means. Also, a business degree doesn't mean you'll be wearing a suit and a tie. I don't know many business that still have employees wearing suits and ties.

It seems you promote Penn Foster in several of your posts in various threads on these forums. I suggest you do more research on this forum and others. Penn Foster is not regionally accredited. They have proven to be very dishonest in my dealings with them. They have 285 complaints to the BBB in the last 3 years. Thomas Edison had 5 and Excelsior had 25 just to put into perspective. It's also a lot considering most people with bad experiences don't file complaints and just walk away.

 

Through my contacts where I teach; I know of two companies that are trying to find qualified skill workers (i.e diesel mechanics and skilled steel workers).

It is a struggle - and I know I have students in my classes would be better off in a trade field...

Shawn

 

I don't promote them, I would NEVER tell anyone to enroll there. They just fit me. I have never steered anyone to enroll there. I have a few gripes with them, but overall I like how they work. TESC just didn't work out for me because the degree I wanted from them didn't have the courses offered through them. It made it too difficult to get where I wanted to go with them.
On another note there is a serious shortage of skilled workers in this country. We despite what you hear are still the manufacturer kings of the world, it just takes skill, a trade, a degree in most cases to get the jobs in manufacturing now. Will I get rich, no, but a decent living wage is where I want to be.
Also of course I know they are DETC accredited. Employers don't care as long as the accrediting agency is recognized by the Department of Education.

 

This isn't true by anyone's reckoning. Even DETC's own research shows a diminished acceptance for degrees from the schools it accredits. While such a degree might be right for some people in some situations--the magnitude of which we don't know--there are plenty of employment situations where a degree from a school accredited by an agency other than the regional association will not do. This can never be said of regional accreditation. Students considering degree programs from schools accredited by agencies other than a regional association should take that into account when weighing all the considerations necessary in choosing a particular program from a particular school. All things considered, such a school might be the right choice. But please don't make it sound like these distinctions make no difference. They do.

 

As far as I read the degree itself makes no difference to the employer. I read this in several difference places, even from the DETC. I will say this though, I have mostly only checked with employers that higher for trade jobs, or industrial jobs like the ones I am going for. A few tried to steer me toward CIE-WC, and that of course is a DETC accredited.
Also I am not getting into a whole discussion on RA vs NA degrees. Think whatever you want. I am not worried about it in the least, because I talked to a few employers in the industry I want to eventually enter.