New Law School Auctioning Tuition?

Saratoga was $10,000 for 4 years @ $2,500 per year.

Risk not just that he was resigned from the bar but that MOST
correspondence law schools just dont survive, a good researcher
will realize that Taft and Northwestern have stellar reputations
and virtually no risk been around longer then any of the other correspondence law schools period!

and NWCU is still cheap about $12,000 for the entire 4 year bar program and it has been around since 1982. how ya going to
go wrong with that?

Taft is more expensive because it is DETC accredited but that means nothing as far as being bar qualified so that in of itself
has no value or utility.

 

Exactly as I said ($2500 per year is nearly four times more than $750 per year so long as the auction doesn't go higher than $3000).

There is no doubt that there is a lower possiblity of Taft and NWCU folding than a new school, this is not in dipute. I would argue though that there is a HUGE risk a student takes by enrolling in these programs. Even with a decent correspondence passage rate the probability of a new student passing the bar from these schools is probably in single digits (very few students will survive the baby bar hurdle then only a fraction of those will pass the bar after four years of study).

You seem to have failed to recognize that money is probably an important factor for the majority of potential law students. After all, if it wasn't wouldn't many of these students just enroll in ABA schools?

There is nothing wrong with NWCU. I really like the school and believe that they have done a very good job of educating students. BUT... for SOME students, who might not otherise have the opportunity to study law... I still believe that $3000 is a smoking deal.

 

What the hell kind of law school needs to hold an auction?

lol, come on its a school for god's sake not something you bid
on e-bay.

My prediction.... no one will complete 4 years and pass the bar and become an attorney from National Law School.

Why? because is wont be around in 4 years!

 

You're right. Auctioning tuition on the internet is very unconventional (though most would say that studying law online is as well). This is why there is good reason to be skeptical. My entire points here have been focused on managing risk... and an opportunity for someone to study law who might not otherwise have the chance.

Maybe it will fail... Just as North Korea is going to send its nukes at California so you'd probably better move somewhere east though right?

 

I agree that the future prospects for National Law School are hard to predict. But my guess (and this is only a guess based on Dude's research, which I think he would agree was not extensive, and a quick perusal of the National website) is that this is a genuine effort at producing a high quality distance learning law school. I hope they make it.

As far as the risk goes, who knows? They may be gone in 6 months. But if they survive one year and you pass the baby bar then you haven't wasted your $3000.

What I would like to see from a start up law school (and this may well be in the pending legislation) is disclosure of financial status. This would at least give an indication of whether a new school had the financial means to survive a couple lean years.

One thing that bodes well for National (in my opinion) is that at least they are using a real elearning platform (eCollege) rather than just cobbling something together themselves.

Again, this just feels like a committed effort to me, and if they are then that at least is a good starting point.

 

""""As far as the risk goes, who knows? They may be gone in 6 months. But if they survive one year and you pass the baby bar then you haven't wasted your $3000""""

Why not just go to a non-ABA but state bar accredited law school and then you wont have to take the baby bar as you will be exempt from it.

 

Because it is only $3000 for the ENTIRE degree!

Why not just attend an ABA school then you won't have anything to worry about, right?

 

Why not go to a non-ABA but state bar accredited law school?

This actually brings up a whole other argument.

The two principal reasons, as I see it, are:

A) Geography
B) Economics

But I think you're absolutely right. If you can, in any way, manage to go to a residential law school then this is what you should do.

 

I have said before that if I were a middle aged Californian with no desire ever to live in any other state, and especially if I did not have a bachelor's degree, and I wanted to be a lawyer, I'd probably do my J.D. at a CalBar school in preference to an ABA school.

 

This makes sense for many situations. I am a bit disturbed, however, about the bar passage rate of these state bar "approved" schools. I've noticed that the passage rate is often less than that of the correspondence schools. Of course bad students aren't filtered out by the "baby bar" which clearly has an effect on the rate. I would venture to guess though that many students who fail the baby bar probably wouldn't complete four years of legal education even without that hurdle.

 

The best measure would be "throughput"; how many first year students end up as lawyers within, say, a five year period.

I don't know whether those statistics are available in a convenient form for any but ABA approved schools. I'd GUESS that throughput would be by far the best for ABA schools, not quite so good for CalBar schools that are regionally accredited, somewhat worse for CalBar schools that are not R/A (because of the availability of federal financial aid at the former), and dismal for unaccredited and correspondence schools because of the Baby Bar, open admissions policies, and such.

 

I agree 100%. It would be very interesting to see these numbers and would tell us a lot.

On a different note: I notice a poster named JDLLM has made reference on another chatboard to the proposed California law transfering regulation to the state bar. According to the poster it is now effectively dead. Perhaps the JDLLM who posts here (or any other user for that matter) can give us more insight on this?

http://counsel.net/chatboards/lawstudents/topic1568/6.29.06.10.01.30.html

Also, I noticed there is a bidder for the $3000 tuition on ebay. It appears that at least one person is willing to pay this amount ($750 per year).

 

I "won" that auction, after seeing it mentioned here. I sent my $3,100 in and will see what happens. I have a recently completed BA from COSC.

I also spent last year reading and studying for the first year of the University of London LLB, but decided in February I wasn't ready to take the exams. With tutoring, London costs around $3,000 per year, which is quite a bargain, if one is willing to immerse oneself in English legal and political systems.

So I thought I might trying the CA bar approach. The National system will apparent require three online sessions a week, along with approximately 18 hours of study. 20 hours a week is also about what it takes to be competitive in London LLB. I was only doing 10-12 hours, and fell behind. So I am hoping that a more structured environment will provide for more learning, measured in hours.

But I have yet to see the actual online learning site at National. And I also have yet to be accepted, which requires a phone interview and transcripts. LSAT is optional, but I took it last year and got a 158.

 

Congratulations on (at least what appears to be) a good deal! It does not appear that this new school is very selective yet (could change in the future if numbers are decent), as they advertise that CLEP students are eligible for their school. As such, your admission should just be a formality.

Out of curiosity, have you had much contact with people at the school yet (professors, staff, etc.)? If so, what is your overall opinion at this point?

 

Hello,

Like others here, I look forward to hearing more about National Law School. Only time will tell how effective National Law School is, but I'm optimistic.

On the subject of the London LLB, which tutorial college did you study with, and how was your experience.

Having done a year of the London LLB myself I'm always interested in other people's experiences. I absolutely agree that 20 hours per week is necessary, and that might be a low average once you consider how much prep time you do for the exams.

And if you don't mind an out of curiousity question, isn't a 158 LSAT good enough to get you into a B&M ABA school? I thought that was a reasonable score, although I have to admit I'm fairly ignorant about the LSAT generally.

Congratulations on your tuition deal and best of luck.

 

Did you consider Northwest California University School of Law?

http://www.nwculaw.edu/
http://www.nwculaw.edu/finances_tuition.shtml

If so, I'd be curious why you ruled it out.

Dave

 

NWCU Law is now just over $11K for four years. Using eBay, the cost at National Law will be $3,100 plus fees and backs. I thought the 70% cost reduction was worth taking the chance with a new school and an unproven curriculum. Seeking an unaccredited JD using either traditional or online distance education is a very risky investment of one's time and in the case of Concord and one or two others, one's cash. I am trying to mitigate my risk by keeping my cash outlays to a minimum and focusing on how to invest my time, which in my late 40s is my most precious asset.

For a qualified student, the primary challenge of law school, particularly in years one and two of the four-year part-time or distance program, is assimililating large amounts of unfamiliar and hard-to-digest information. For the average 25-year old learner, the best estimates are that it requires at least 1,000 hours of study and 300 hours of classroom time per year. For an older learner such as me, the needs are possibly greater.

I know I could attend the local tier-4 ABA accredited law school four nights a week, and keep my job and family, but everything else would need to go. That is acceptable to my wife and me, but that still doesn't answer where I am going to get the 1,000 hours each year to study. This is the challenge of law school for the non-traditional student, B&M or distance.

I think there is a a way to slice my day to get the 4-5 hours to learn and study. One hour before work, one hour during lunch at work, and two hours each evening between 9-11. Add an additional two hours each weekend and holiday. So the time managment issue, coupled with the upfront cost of attending a B&M school, makes me think that distance education is the place to start.

If I am successful passing the Baby Bar in CA (first year exam) or the year one exams of the London LLB program, I would consider transferring/starting over at a B&M school. If I then continue in distance, each year I would also consider it. At minimum, passing the CA Bar and gaining admittance in another state is a seven-year process. But on an hourly time basis, it is about the same as a four or five-year B&M due to transport and down time, at least for me. It is also around $80K cheaper. For me, this is about about maximizing study time and mitigating the risk of a bad life decision.

For London this past year, I used all of the Semple Piggot Rochez
materials but did use not their tutorial services or revision courses. If I had been making adequate progress, I would have used their online assignments and exams and London-based revision sessions. Their materials are excellent.

 

I understand your logic, but I would say that since your time is precious, you could spend more dollars with NWCU and Taft U and know absolutely that they are going to be around for four years and beyond. I'm not trying to induce any cognitive dissonance about your purchase, but NWCU seems like most intriguing but safe bet in non-ABA, Cal-Bar set. Also, if you finish the LLB at London, you'll be in the running for an in-house counsel position at a small company. Instead of the portfolio approach, I would be more comfortable with betting one solid horse.

Dave

 

Betting on one "solid horse" is not a bad decision. It seems that probably the main reason cpaq chose to even study for a DL JD is because of the deal he received. For a person casually considering this option, receiving tuition at this price can sometimes make a huge difference in the decision to study or not.

 

The e-bay link clearly says that the auction was for first year tuition only and the winning bid was $1.00. What happened?