More tut-tut-ery in Gaza

The rose -colored glasses filter truth from lies.
So I'm on the side of the truth.

What do you think happens to "civilians" in Gaza when Hamas is shooting at IDF solders RPGs and launching grenades?
Did any of the Israel hating media provided you the #s of casualties from Hamas shooting in to Gaza civilian population while IDF is rescuing their hostages that are held by "civilians"?

What color lens glasses one need to get the truth?
US adds $404m aid to Palestinians, how much will go to Hamas?, maybe it will help with Muslim votes in Nov?

 

Tens of thousands of civilians dying is not propaganda; it is fact. Israel is targeting civilian locations, which is against international law. The recordings of top Israeli officials demonstrate that they have no regard for the lives of civilian Palestinians. If they weren't such idiots to say these things out loud, they probably wouldn't be facing the real probability of having warrants issued for their arrest. By the way, Hamas leaders are also being considered for arrest.

Gaza hasn't had elections in a long time. They are under an authoritarian regime. Hamas won a plurality, not a majority, of the vote in 2006.

 

Yes, they did provide the number of casualties on the Israeli side and from Hamas friendly fire in Gaza. The number of casualties in Israel is far lower than it is on the Gazan side. This is lopsided warfare. Israel is far better equipped than Hamas, and the civilians who are being killed by the tens of thousands are not combatants.

 

Which #'s are you relying on? The ones provided by Hamas health ministry?
The latest I checked, civilian #'s are much less than combatants, especially when compared
to all the other wars. man combat age is harder to tell, but women and chilodren, the numbers were revised recently.
No one expects in such a danced area to have war without civilian casualties - unfortunately as tragic as it is.

 

The truth is that Israel has squandered and lost the hearts and minds of most of the world since October 7. You say because Hamas has such amazing powers over the rest of the world. It even forces Netanyahu to do things that hurts Israel. I say its because Netanyahu has lost and squandered the huge advantage that Israel had on October 7 because of the actions he has taken and not taken since then.

What you are arguing really doesn't make sense. Hamas has only extremely limited ability to make decisions and impact things. It is only Israel that has any real freedom of action here.

 

Who do you trust for the number of Gazan civilian casualties? Far right news stations that have no one on the ground counting and that have a history of consistently providing misinformation?

 

Exactly. It wouldn't have mattered what year the terrorist attack took place. Israel was mostly supported immediately after the October 7th attack. Netanyahu's actions changed people's minds. Netanyahu is unpopular and is only in power because he panders to Mizrahi Jews, who he's said racist things about in the past.

 

Propaganda is how many are women and children vs combatants.
And how many are killed by Hamas? Nobody knows.
Who steals the supplies?

 

Basically, you're saying that you don't know that the numbers are way off, so you're just assuming it's propaganda? Is it propaganda when Israel has admitted to multiple mistakes that resulted in civilian deaths? Why are they making so many mistakes? They're supposed to have some of the best training in the world. Why did Israel shoot their own citizens who were taken hostage? They were unarmed and waving the white flag. That isn't Hamas propaganda; Israel admitted to doing it. They thought they were Palestinians, so they broke the laws of war.

 

s this still happeni

UN adjusted the #s, its half of what was reported for women and children. Hamas health ministry doesn't report how many among the dead are combatants.
Still, this war is the lowest in ratio of civilian casualties per combatant.
Unlike in previous conflicts, neither OCHA nor local and international NGOs are currently conducting real-time fatality verification in Gaza or attempting to distinguish between civilians and combatants.
Four sources: the Hamas-run MOH in Gaza, the Hamas-run GMO, the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Health in Ramallah, and the UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA) (which simply relays Gaza MOH/GMO claims, sometimes inaccurately).

In comparison to
Yet the civilian death toll during the nine-month battle for Mosul numbered between up to 11,000, AP reported. Gaza is unknown, estimated 10,000 to 16,000 civilians and there is % of civilians in Gaza killed by Hamas and Jihad, the rest are combatants. Did you see protests in all the world for Mosul?

 

I tapped on your links expecting to see sources to revised numbers, but they don't show anything. I just see homepages. I don't know where that graph comes from because it isn't labeled with a source.

There were protests at the beginning of the Iraq War, but there's a phenomenon called sympathy fatigue. I already stated earlier that I believe that genocides, war crimes, and ethnic cleansing events receive attention based on who the perpetrator is. I gave a list of current and recent events that are being ignored by the general population, including the right. The right has only started to bring up other genocides and war crimes to ask why people care about Palestine and no one else. In general, I don't really think that most people care about genocides in foreign countries, which is why they're allowed to last for long. The African Union estimates that almost a half a million civilians were killed in Ethiopia; Ghent University estimates that upwards of 600,000 civilians were killed in Ethiopia. There weren't massive protests when Trump was selling weapons to Saudi Arabia, and those weapons were used to kill civilians in Yemen and starve children to death.

 

That is a most excellent point. IDF murdered their own citizens in their zeal to commit war crimes. This can't be an isolated incident.

 

All reliable reporting is that the original Hamas estimates of total deaths in Gaza are pretty accurate. If anything it is likely an undercount. What Lerner is talking about is that reliable reporting as well as the UN have indicated that the ratio of women and children to men in this total death number was skewed more to women and children and less to men than it should be.

 

Distortion of the truth about IDF. IDF is highly moral army. WOW I can't believe it, the bias you have against IDF.
Yes, they killed a number of Israeli hostages that escaped, but it wasn't in zeal to murder, but zeal to kill the enemy terrorists combatants who mistakenly misidentified, as Hamas pretenders.
There is a huge difference.
And this is the problem with the whole such distorted view in general.
If your country is attacked, and you are fighting the enemy, many would be highly motivated to destroy and kill the enemy.

 

On 6 May, the UN said that 69% of reported fatalities were women and children. Two days later, it said this figure was 52%.
The overall number of reported deaths in Gaza - which early May reported more than 35,000 - has not changed, but the UN now says incomplete information has led to the revision.
The UN says it is now relying on figures from the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza, rather than from the Hamas-run Government Media Office (GMO).
Both are unreliable sources of information.
The GMO has consistently given a higher figure for the proportion of women and children in all fatalities than has the health ministry.
I say one is to many, no one should be killed, and I hate wars, but this war was forced on Israel, and I'm sure any country if attacked like Israel was and shoot rockets on Southern and central Israel will try to remove the treats and return security to its citizens. Israel tried before limited operations and mistakenly thought they had the deterrence.
Now they will deliver the security.

 

So, once again, you don't know that the figures are inaccurate, and you have no competing figures, but you're still asserting that most of the casualties have been enemy combatants.

How do you know this? This has the tone of someone being brainwashed by propaganda. What are the facts?

 

The sources UN and many rely on are anti-Israeli, biased against Israel for many decades, They are untrustworthy and politically motivated.
It's a part of the psychological warfare that Hamas, and the Jihadists, conduct.
It's the Political Jihad with all of its forms.

I have friends and relatives serving, and who served in the IDF. The core values of IDF are beyond any doubt among the most moral in the world.
They value lives, they rescue civilians while risking their lives.
Does it mean that here and there wouldn't be a trigger-happy person? You know what violence circle is, revenge, anger all create pressure on solders.
To accuse IDF of anything else is a huge lie and its exactly what Jihadists want.
The rescue operation, for example, took into account the less possible civilian casualties, it was postponed due to higher possibility of civilians casualties.
I remember the reporting about a rocket that hit a hospital in Gaza, BBC and a like, and others who hate Israel, rushed to accused Israel, but it turns out the rocket was fired, misfired by Islamic Jihad combatants.

 

"The terrorist organisation knows that Israel has serious moral reservations about attacking civilian facilities and risking harm to innocents, a reservation not shared by Hamas militants willing to use their own people as human shields. Hospital traffic is also the perfect place to conceal the movement of terrorists and their supplies, a fact often excluded from debates over Israeli strategy. Resultantly, when the IDF launches strategic strikes, they pay a huge price in public opinion.

The terrorists’ reliance on Israel’s moral scruples is especially cynical. The very fact that there is fighting inside hospitals proves Hamas is entrenched there. If they were not present, the IDF could have moved in swiftly, without firing a shot, and secured the buildings for doctors and patients. If Hamas were using the buildings but not holding Palestinian civilians there as human shields, the IDF could use standoff weapons to destroy terrorists by bombing the buildings that house them, without harming civilians. "

 

Israel should take an approach to end this, like the US did towards Japan when ending WWII. Unconditional Hamas and Islamic jihad surrender. These cease fires are just a pause for Hamas to reload. It happens every time they start this stuff.

 

The U.S. scared Japan by killing 100k to 200k civilians with atomic bombs. That is not an option for Israel.