More tut-tut-ery in Gaza

Here you can see hiw widly Gazan is used.

Bill, I disagree with your and other definitions, old or new it's not the case.
The so-called Palestinian people are not a separate group, everybody in this land was called this way until 1948. This is the fact.
Most Arabs of Arabs in British Mandatory Palestine considered themselves part of Greater Syria rather than “Palestinians.” In 1937,

In 1948, Jordan fought with the newly born state of Israel over lands of former mandatory Palestine, effectively gaining control of the West Bank and annexing it with its population.
No Palestinian state was created during 1948 to 1967.
And if Israel didn't take the area in 1967, it would be Jordan today. Only then, it became the central base of the PLO in its struggle against Israel.
Oslo and other agreements did create Palestinian autonomy.
Since 1967, a whole national mythology has been created around the terms “Palestine” and “Palestinian.” For example, the Palestinian Arabs have claimed to be descendants of the Canaanites who preceded the ancient Israelites and Philistines in the Holy Land.
While Arabs in the region are free to call themselves whatever they want, they are not free to hijack the 3,000-year history of the Holy Land for themselves. In the end, the name “Palestine” represents the Jews’ original dispossession of their homeland 1,900 years ago.

Now that Hamas caused all this war, and Israel paid in blood fighting Gaza, Israel to create buffer zone, up to half Gaza, and hold it, settled it.

 

Maybe you can grasp this? Please read.

Palestinian (comparative more Palestinian, superlative most Palestinian)

1. An inhabitant of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, legally governed by the Palestinian National Authority.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Palestinian#English


I never claimed that Palestinians was a separate group. I said that it is simply what they are called. See above definition. Your statements to the contrary is just Israeli right-wing nonsense.

 

I think those are false difinitions.
And what is nonsense or not is open for debate.

 

Palestinian
noun [ C ]

person from Palestine, especially a member of the Arab people of Palestine

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/palestinian

_______________________________

Palestinian
[ pal-uh-stin-ee-uhn ]

noun

1. a native or inhabitant of Palestine.
2. Also called Palestinian Arab. an Arab formerly living in Palestine who advocates the establishment of an Arab homeland there

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/palestinian
____________________________

Palestinian
(pælɪstɪniən)
Word forms: plural Palestinians
1. ADJECTIVE
Palestinian means belonging or relating to the area between the River Jordan and the Mediterranean Sea that used to be called Palestine, or to the Arabs who come from this area.
2. COUNTABLE NOUN [usu pl]
A Palestinian is someone from Palestine.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/palestinian

_______________________________

So all of these definitions are wrong? I say nonsense again.

 

These difinitions apply to Jews as well.
And after 1948.
When Palestine stopped being a political entity, the term is evolving, but in reality there is no longer Palestine.
Bill in 1950 who was the president or king of Palestine?
Since 1948 there is Israel.
Till 1948 Golda Mayer was Palestinian Jew.
After 1948 she became Israeli.
West Bank are Jordanians before 1967.
Gazans are Egyptiqns before 1967, Now they are Gazans, Arabs of Gaza.
There is no such country called Palestine.
It's a fact.

 

Every single source has a carve out that specifies Arabs. So you are either saying something you don’t mean or perhaps you didn’t really bother reading them or maybe you don’t understand how dictionaries work?

 

Ottoman Turks occupied "Palestine"
400 yeas.
Are they Palestinians?
Same for Arab Egyptian migrants who came to the area an setled it.
As of 1948 there is no more Palestine.
It's a fact.
Some don't like it, don't accept it and trying to create instead of Israel another entity.
There is a 100+ years dispute..

 

Sorry Lerner your dislike of what the word means today under normal usage is only relevant to you and a few Israeli right-wing radicals.

 

Bill

The word in dictionary doesent bother me.
For example let's take a word Moabite
I have no issue with it.
I know such kingdom no longer exists.
Same for Palestinian, such kingdom, country or state doesn't exist.

Mo·ab·ite
noun

1. a member of a Semitic people living in Moab in biblical times, traditionally descended from Lot.

adjective

1. relating to Moab or its people.

No issue here, it's in dictionary, OK.

But answer me, why the dictionary is not calling Jews who for centuries lived in geographical area Palestine, are not Palestinian in the dictionary.
Why it states especially Arab?
Jews lived in Palestine 3000 years.
Don't you see the bias?

 

A distorted narrative painting Israel as a country of "colonizers" has become an accepted truth, particularly among a generation whose concept of global politics has been formed by social media sized snippets.

It is a tawdry falsehood. Given that many Israelis were driven out of surrounding Middle Eastern countries and many others were survivors of the Holocaust, branding them “colonial” is laughable – but also deeply dangerous.

If anything, the story of Israel is the very inverse of colonialism.
When Israel gained independence in 1948 the indigenous population, whether Jewish, Muslim, Christian or Druze, were given the vote.
And it became a beacon for women’s suffrage in the Middle East, particularly for Muslim women. Israeli-Arabs are now part of the fabric of society – they are judges, broadcasters, soldiers, sportspeople and politicians. The Muslim party United Arab List was part of the 2021 coalition.

That’s the inconvenient truth that doesn’t fit the social media narrative. There were of course other Muslims who fled Israel in 1948, or were forcibly evicted. Some went to the West Bank and others to the Gaza Strip, where many of their descendants still live.

But it’s important not to give that story the social media treatment too, and erase its historical context. It happened during a war, after Israel was attacked by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia and Yemen. So many of these details have been erased, distorting Israel’s history and its very story of existence. This casting Israel as a colonial force and branding the concept of Zionism as malevolent is crushing real debate rather than encouraging it – and stoking hatred with it.

 

Blaming the dictionary is plain silly. No there is no bias. It's very simple. The dictionary simply defines the word based on how it's used. The words meaning by the people that use it.

I'm really not into word origination studies. But this one looks extremely simple and probably the way it usually works. When people are looking for a word to describe something they will usually try to grab and use a word that they're familiar with and has as close of a meaning to what they are trying to say as possible. They needed a word to describe the Arabs living in Gaza and the West Bank. Palestinian seemed pretty close and now it has grown to the point that that is what it usually means when it's used. They don't need a word to describe Jews in the area because Israeli works fine for that in almost all cases.

So Palestinian now primarily means the Arab people living in Gaza and the West Bank. Well except for a few far right-wing Israeli radicals who don't like the use of that word this way. I suspect that they are mostly just being either conspiratorial, paranoid or hateful or maybe all three.

 

Bill these dictionary is written by humans who apply comon interpretation. So blaming the writers.

Fact is there is no such cou try or state called Palestine.
At best there is Palestinian authority in West Bank and Hamas authority in Gaza.
All are hostile and want to replace, destroy Israel from the face of the earth
They want to create instead of Israel a state and call it Palestine.

That's it and it's been proven in all the wars for Israel existance so far.

It's not about far right, it's about entire Israel.

 

It's very interesting to read this board after I've set a particular high-conflict participant to "ignore" status. I can see the effect he has on others (the same effect he had on me) even though my version of the the board doesn't show his posts.

 

Here's my two suggestions.

I copied over 4 definitions of the word "Palestinian" from four dictionaries that I found. Print that out and then do all kinds of nasty things to that piece of paper to make yourself feel better.

Alternatively or in addition to, if you feel extremely ambitious talk to about 1.5 billion English speaking people in this world and convince them to use a different word instead of Palestinian and then the dictionaries will change the definition of that word in their dictionary.

edit: As of 2023, an estimated 1.46 billion people speak English around the World. Incredibly, this amounts to 18.07% of the global population, almost 1 in 5 people. More people speak English than any other language.

 

Bill,
This exercise will prove absolutly nothing.
Just like billions of believers of particular religeon, they may have somewhat similar book that they follow but it doesent make them right.

 

SF, I don't know if you read Hebrew so forgive me if you already know this but I THINK the pronunciation is "Falestin". (I'm ignoring the suffex '-it' and the definite article "H").

In Hebrew, the same letter "peh" serves for both the "P" and "F" sounds. Your phrase doesn't include any of the vowel or diacritical marks so I can't be sure if it means "F" but in context I think it does.

The word itself would always be rendered into English as "Palestinian".

During the Mandate, I think the British said "Palestine" while the Arab inhabitants said "Falestin". Same word of course.

 

Before 1948 people living in geographical area and a political entity, where called Palestinians.
And institutions such as banks would be named Palestinian Bank even of owned by the Jews of Palestine.
Travel papers of the British mandate with the name of the Palestine.
It all ended with the end of mandate.
Israel is part of the area, Egypt had part, and Jordan had part.

I think they don't get to attack Israel and keep the land. If they can't live without attacking their neighbors they will loose the land.
If the neighbor is strong.
Lebanon and Israel escalate war.
I say Lebanon because Hezbollah is part of Lebanese government and sell themselves as defenders of Lebanon.
They have the power to devastate each other.
Iran will join the regional war, and who know Egypt and others.
Weat Bank will rise as well.
It may push escalation to using desperate means.
Israel should stop, build the Army add many more bataluons and other means.
Strengthen relations with allies, not alienate and fight with allies.

 

There is a conflict of interests between the US Left and the State of Israel.
US Left wants to establish Palestinian state.
Israel can't afford such an existential threat to happen.

Israel can't afford to have Hamas,,l Fatach, Jihad running Gaza, Israel will keep the control and the ability to operate in Gaza in order to insure security and reduce threat to Israel.
I don't see IDF leaving Gaza without the hostages returned to Israel.
While in Gaza,, there is a lot of work, defeating remaining Hamas battalions and 100s of miles of tunnels, and terror infrastructure that need to be destroyed.
A lot of work with losses is being performed by IDF.
US is great, best friend of Israel, but there are times when friends are arguing.
Unlike Hamas, Israel abide by international laws.

There are times when people forget who are the good guys out there.