More tut-tut-ery in Gaza

Bill, we went down this rout.
America dropped 2 Nukes on Japan and together with allies level Berlin, and other German cities, only after Nazis capitulated the relations were gradually adjusted.
Aboard the USS Missouri in Tokyo Bay, Japan formally surrenders to the Allies.
By the summer of 1945, the defeat of Japan was a foregone conclusion. The Japanese navy and air force were destroyed. The Allied naval blockade of Japan and intensive bombing of Japanese cities had left the country and its economy devastated. At the end of June, the Americans captured Okinawa.

Do you see Hamas, Jihad, Abbas or people in West bank and Gaza surrender?
Hamas os not a conventional army enemy, they are a terrorist army that defiles any rules and only 50% maybe of their active combatants and tunnels are destroyed.
West Bank, has smaller army of terrorsists but getting ready to attack , Israel is proactive in reducing that terrorist army.
Hezbollah, may cause the Lebanon and Israel to burn.
The existentual threat is real for Israel.
Israel tried to peacefully live the palestinians, and Palestinian terror backed by Iran destoryed any chance so far.

I remeber Entebbe opration, Jonathan.
I also remeber how many countries in the world occused Israel of violating the Uganda sovernty.

 

Malice, no, I don't think so. Political opportunism more likely.

 

I was replying specifically to your assertion that

These were different kind of wars. I don't think you're saying that Israel has to drop atomic bombs on Gaza to make them like Israel. Don't imply that I'm thinking Israel has already won the war. They are different kinds of wars. I'm saying that the American public was justified in their widespread hatred of Germany and Japan. Just like Israelis are justified in their widespread hatred of Hamas. I'm saying that leaders have to be better. They have to consider the longer term. Netanyahu is not considering the longer term. He is more worried about his own problems of staying in power in order to avoid jail. Instead Netanyahu should be trying to figure out how best to make the Palestinians in Gaza not want to support the Hamas terrorists. The key here is what happens after the war. Netanyahu won't say what happens after the war. This is due in part to him wanting the war to continue because it is keeping him in power. (Hint: Israel stealing land from the Palestinians is not a good way to make them no longer want to support anti-Israel terrorists.)

 

All I was saying that at this time in history many in Israel don't see Palestinians in Gaza as victims of Hamas but as apart of Hamas. There 8s Hamas in uniform and there is Hamas in civilian clothing, both share the same hate amd wish, goal and it's the destruction of Israel.
Those who see it this way, see whole Gaza, West Bank as enemy that needs tobe defeated to a point that it can't terrorise Israel.
No country will allow to be fired upon and have its citizens killed. 8 months of Lebanon shooting at Israel in the North etc.
So I think Iran is pushing Israel in to a position that may be the last resort.

Israel has to complete and win it wars.
The founders knew it, current generations need to change the conception.

 

Hamas leader said civilian death toll could benefit militant group in Gaza war, WSJ reports.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/hamas-leader-says-israelis-where-131130670.html

"The military leader of Hamas has said he believes he has gained the upper hand over Israel and that the spiralling civilian death toll in Gaza would work in the militant group’s favor, according to a report by the Wall Street Journal, citing leaked messages the newspaper said it had seen.

“We have the Israelis right where we want them,” Yahya Sinwar told other Hamas leaders recently, according to one of the messages, the WSJ reported Monday. In another, Sinwar is said to have described civilian deaths as “necessary sacrifices” while citing past independence-related conflicts in countries like Algeria."

 

First, Hamas is an evil terrorist organization. Therefore their lack of caring about civilian deaths is the way we expect them to feel about it. Second, they are absolutely correct that Israel racking up the civilian death count has hurt Israel. On October 7 almost the whole world was on Israel's side. Today all of that good will has been wasted and squandered. For example, Netanyahu has been charged with war crimes. We have protests against Israel etc. etc. etc..

 

While you are correct about the state of affairs that small % of delusional anti-American, anti Democracy protesters cause, it doesn't necessary makes Israel wrong.
Sky News network in Australia actually got this right.
While Israel celebrated the rescue of its citizens from the clutches of maniacal terrorists, many around the Western world were upset, even appalled, “It’s simply insane that people are mad at Israel for rescuing the hostages rather than being mad at Hamas for taking hostages in the first place.
We live in a world in which black is white, up is down, and moral clarity is nowhere to be seen.

100 people killed in the rescue operation including terrorists,
Hamas fighters used rocket grenade launchers in highly populated area, how many "civilians" they killed?
Some choose to believe Hamas. Hamas lies about the #s, they never tell how many hamas terrorists were killed.
Hamas shot at the hostages as they tried to escape, at IDF Hamas shot RPG's.

 

Gazans are watching their homes be destroyed, their children being killed, their lives, already precarious, being utterly ruined and who is fighting back? Hamas. The long term consequences are obvious and dangerous to Israel UNLESS the Government of Israel carries out the Settler Parties' agenda of annihilation. The further Israel travels down the genocide path, the harder turning back will be but I see no sign of changing course.

The conclusion I draw is that genocide is the goal, consciously chosen and diligently pursued.

 

And as Smotricht warns, the West Bank is next.

 

I humbly and respectfully say, your conclusion is wrong.
The Gaza suffering is caused by Hamas and the attacks on Israel, shooting rockets at Israeli civilians and the goal to destroy Israel.
There is no genocide in Gaza, there are consequences of war that Gaza started.
The long term consequences are obvious and dangerous to Israel, this is why Hamas and Jihad must be destroyed in Gaza and West bank.
This is an existential threat for Israel.
Settler party have leverage, but the agenda is to bring security to Israel, not any genocide in Gaza. There is no such a thing.
The focus is on Iran and it proxies.
Israel will welcome any peaceful leadership, that can be verified.
Palestine is just Islamists weapon against israel. Its about geting read of the state of Israel.

 

Lerner, you are looking at it through Israeli rose colored glasses. The actual facts are plain. Israel is losing (if not already lost) the battle for hearts and minds. Netanyahu is handing the horrible evil Hamas victory on the strategic front. As has been explained countless times.

Here's a good article that explains it better than I can.

Hamas gambled on the suffering of civilians in Gaza. Netanyahu played right into it
https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/11/middleeast/analysis-yahya-sinwar-hamas-ceasefire-talks-intl-latam/index.html

edit: If you look at a person or situation through rose-colored glasses or rose-tinted glasses, you see only their good points and therefore your view of them is unrealistic.

 

Israel is loosing harts and minds, due to successful Hamas and Jihadi propaganda and elections season. Those who anti Israel are looking via green colored glasses. Hamas.
Still, it's better to do the right thing and not to lose the country.
Well, EU just had elections, and why do you think the ultra-right gained seats and power in EU want to keep their countries identity and are tired of the chaos that Jihadi, bring to their countries. Immigration from Islamists countries is one such reason,
The mistake was that Israel should have dealt with Raffia and rest of the Gaza much sooner, when there was the wider support.
Israel was under pressure and acted much restrained, and still lost minds and hearts.

 

Israel is losing hearts and minds because Netanyahu is a horrible leader. He has been focused on his own personal survival rather than doing what was best for Israel and the Jewish people. His whole approach to the war was wrong. The tactic he is using is to bomb and destroy Gaza. That was and is hopeless for stopping Hamas. If Israel is unsuccessful in complete genocide of the people living in Gaza then it only strengthens their support for terrorism. He should have gone in with something more with an attitude of a large law enforcement effort. Perhaps with a view that it will likely take many years. Encourage and reward the Palestinians to rat out Hamas. With the goal of eventually making the Palestinians like Israel and hate Hamas.

 

Killing tens of thousands of civilians within such a short period of time and blocking vital aid from reaching civilian populations is not exercising restraint. Most of Gaza is now destroyed, and they are locked into that small strip of land.

With that said, I do believe that people are only paying attention to these war crimes because it's Israel. They didn't care this much about recent war crimes and genocides occurring in Yemen, Myanmar, China, Sudan, DRC, and the Tigray Region of Ethiopia.

 

Lerner can only view the situation through rose-colored glasses or rose-tinted glasses, he sees only Israel's good points and therefore his view of the situation is unrealistic.

 

On the Gaza war, I think you are buying in to Hamas and other anti-Israel propaganda.
None of what you stated is actually even close to reality on the ground.
Gaza is destroyed because it attacked Israel, shooting rockets to kill Israeli civilians, attacked and killed, kidnapped Israelis.
So Gaza is being destroyed for Jihadi, and religious goals, they act to destroy Israel, Gaza wasn't destroyed on Oct 6th of 2023.
Iran is pulling the strings and willing to sacrifice Gaza, West bank, Lebanon etc.
Gazans could help Israel to release hostages, and fight Hamas, they choose to support Hamas, their sons, brothers etc.
Egypt been caught in lie, the tunnels from Egypt , is $$$$$ smuggling weapons and materials for rockets that are being shot at Israel.