More tut-tut-ery in Gaza

Not even Israeli Arabs would be spared by these people. Democracy and diversity aren't on their radar.

 

It appears that now Netanyahu and his cabinet has to choose.
A. To take the great historical geopolitical deal, which a chance to place Israel at the center of a regional alliance against the real threat to its existence;
B. Or continue shuffling between Gaza and Rafah.
To go with the US, the Saudis, the Emirates and all the other allies of the anti-Shia axis; Or go with Itamar Ben Gabir, Bezalel Smotrich and others who push for complete destruction of hamas in Gaza.

It appears that the political tsunami is coming on steroids, with a security earthquake, plus a huge political fire (the draft, today at the High Court in front 9 judges), a multinational type of blockade, a serious and determined US president and a war that does not seem to be coming to an end.

Netanyahu looks to the politicians right, looks to the left, and see no significant allies, who can handle everything with skill and professionalism.
He offered Lieberman the position of a Defense Minister to join government if Ganz leaves.
Liberman is not interested, thinks Bibi has to go.

Pr. Biden kicked Netanyahu out of the closet of ambiguity and presented his own proposal. Of Netanyahu.
And asked the simple question: Does Bibi support Netanyahu's proposal? Yes or No.
No brain confusion and idle chatter.
Pr. Biden's speech came as a surprise to Netanyahu (and to Hamas, and also to Ganz).

The bottom line is, Netanyahu possibly feels trapped.
Off the record, his people confirm that there is indeed an Israeli outline, and Pr.Biden did present it.
But here they insert the reservations, and the conditions, and if Hamas stays in power it is a non-starter, etc., etc.
What Pr. Biden wants is a simple answer: Is Israeli gov going to follow this outline, or not?
Pr. Biden has no time. He also has political needs, and they are quite burning.
He knows that by August the train will leave the station, and he will be there already, approaching the eve of the elections. So, he makes it clear to Netanyahu that it is now or never, the train is leaving.
Maybe there are other calculations such as what if Trump in the next president etc. But no time to delay.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/bidens-fateful-carefully-timed-and-highly-complex-challenge-to-netanyahu-and-hamas/

A senior adviser to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has confirmed that while there is still work that needs to be done on a hostage release deal presented by US President Joe Biden, Israel has agreed to the framework.

“There are a lot of details to be worked out and that includes there will not be a permanent ceasefire until all our objectives are met,” Ophir Falk told Britain’s Sunday Times newspaper.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/senior-netanyahu-adviser-israel-okayed-biden-touted-hostage-deal-but-work-needed/

 

Gaza is only one front, North Israel is being destroyed by Hezbollah is another front.
World doesn't know about Kiriat Shmone?
No major catualties so no news.

 

The Israeli right-wing radicals don't care about anything or what anyone else in the world thinks. They only care about their own overwhelming all consuming driving hatred.

 

Driven by hatered of enemies of Israel who want to destroy Israel.
Both are Torah keeping and moral people.
I think your statement is false.
But it's lefts opinion, distorted one in my humble view.

 

One can be Torah keeping and think themselves moral and be driven by hatred by those who want to destroy Israel. Being driven by hatred means that ones decisions can sometimes be wrong. Sometimes even leading to decisions that are not in Israel's best interest. Israel would be best served if the rest of world could be rallied behind Israel against Iran and Iran's proxies. The radical right-wing in Israel is squandering that opportunity. Instead the radical right-wing is alienating everyone against them. Allowing Iran more freedom to strengthen the terrorists against Israel.

But that's just my unemotional logically arrived at conclusion.

 

I have no gauge of how Israelis as a whole feel about destroying Gaza. There are large protests but these seem to be about making a deal for hostages but I haven’t noticed any press coverage of protests against the slaughter. There may well be such sentiment and protests but I haven’t seen it.

 

What I'm trying to say is that the approach has to be with compromise.
Not my way or highway.
Each side has to negotiate some midground.
Because all think they are right and the other side 100% wrong.
What is good for Israel in my or your view may not be optimal,
Radical right has a stronger opponent in Israel in radical left.
For me Jerusalem is unique, holy city and there is no room for gay parade in there.
Obviously for left my view is wrong.
To me it's like going in to a church or Synagogue to desecrate it.
I would say go parade in Tel Aviv and leave Jerusalem out of such parade that offends all 3 religions with few exceptions among reformists.
This brings anger among religious all over the world.

 

I have no clue what the discussion about Gays has to do with any of this. I was not referring to gays anywhere in this thread. If you posted a link that talked about gay folks, I didn't click on it.

 

Discussions made by radical right have affect on Israel but also radical left can make decisions and policies that are bad for Israel.
I randomly picked one issue, that is from what I see damaging. Not aimed at gay people but at the act of parading it, in holy city. It's rubbing it in, for many religions, the act is highly offensive to traditional Jews, Christians and Muslims.
As to Religious Zionism, there are streams and some are more radical.
People can agree with Rabbi Kahane views but disagree about practical application.
In general he was right about some things and wrong about some issues.
In core Zionism is about religion, it's source is Biblical, prophetic.
So I will repeat it's good to have representation in government but it has to be proportional.
In Israel there is no separation of State and religion.
US proposal follows closely Bibis proposal but it defers on operation against Hamas etc..

 

The religious Zionist rabbis met yesterday (Sunday) with Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich to discuss the abductee deal.
At the meeting, they claimed that if a "dangerous deal" was promoted, as they put it, "it would be possible to withdraw from the government." In doing so, the rabbis gave their consent to the realization of the threat of the head of religious Zionism, that his party would not be part of the government if the deal went ahead - from the very first stage. However, according to sources privy to the details, the rabbis asked to be consulted once more when all the details of the deal would be clearly known.

Prime Minister Netanyahu spoke with Religious Zionist Chairman Bezalel Smotrich and Otzma Yehudit Chairman Itamar Ben Gabir - before issuing their comments, Netanyahu asked them "not to be hasty" in their responses. About an hour and a half after this, they both issued responses with an explicit threat to dissolve the government if the outline was accepted.

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu said today (Monday) in the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Security Committee that he opposes ending the war as part of the deal for the release of hostages. Netanyahu told the members of the Knesset that there are "gaps" between what US President Joe Biden presented and the Israeli proposal. "Biden said the outline and not all the details," Netanyahu said in the debate.

https://news.walla.co.il/item/3668377

 

On October 7 Israel had almost the whole world in their corner supporting them. Netanyahu is a horrible leader that is alienating the world against Israel.

Jewish American army officer quits his intelligence agency job in protest over Biden's 'unqualified' support of Israel
quote:
Major Harrison Mann told CBS that Israel's response to the October 7 attack has 'turned the whole world against it' and imperiled the security of both Jews and Israel.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13494999/major-harrison-mann-resigned-israel-gaza-biden.html

 

We live in a democratic country, he is entitled to do so, if these are his convictions.
The majority of American Jews agree with Biden on supporting Israel in a just war against the evil criminal Hamas, and think it's qualified support and thank the president Biden for his stand with Israel, so in my humble opinion Major Mann is in error, but there are those who disagree even among the Jews and even those who support pro Palestinian protests. In Politics the same, look at
Bernie Sanders, he is very vocal about it.
In reality Jews never been one body or group, there always been within Jewish people diverse groups, opposing groups and even infighting that brought 2000 years exile upon it.
Thanks, Major Mann for his service.
Ironically my friend who is US Air Force officer, retired, strongly support president Biden for standing with Israel, my friend in Iranian American Muslim.

 

Agreed that the war against Hamas is a just war. Hamas is an evil terrorist organization. Both Major Harrison Mann and myself agree with that fully. what we also agree on is that Israel had full support of almost the whole world after October 7 but that since then Netanyahu's policies have squandered and wasted that almost whole world support for really very little gain in reaching their goals. Except perhaps in the goal of crippling the ability of Hamas to carry out another October 7 attack, at least in the very short term. Netanyahu has not destroyed Hamas. Instead he's probably made the Palestinians more likely to support terrorism against Israel in the future. That makes Netanyahu a horrible leader that is harming Israel and making the Jewish people less safe.

 

I'm not arguing here but trying to explain the phenomenon.
The article is in hebrew, if full translation needed.
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3669428
I paraphrase and quote ecerts.

Here is an explanation, and it's a real phenomenon that is observed over there and in some circles here as well:

Ben Gvir and Netanyahu are waiting for the Messiah, and in the meantime they are competing who will bring an apocalypse.
This phenomenon is spreading among large groups of people, from rabbis to Linon Magal: people look at the horrors around,
see that everything is burning - and are filled with hope that this is one of the signs of redemption.
Some speak of Netanyahu as God's messenger, but with each passing day, it seems like an apocalypse.
The feeling is that everything is collapsing.

All of this is even before Avigdor Lieberman's assessment/prediction, according to which all of this is just the promo, because Iran is going to carry out the real attack in the near future, in which all the proxies gathered around Israel will work together, including Iran itself, to deliver the death blow to Israel.
Those who dismiss this warning/assessment in a repeal movement should remember that Lieberman's previous prediction regarding Gaza was fully fulfilled.

The most consistent and influential prophet of redemption is Yanon Magal. Lately he has been repeating this many times: "Bibi will only be replaced by the Messiah", he reminds time and time again, "Do you think that after Bibi there will be a good place?", he asked one time, "You are right, because after Bibi comes the Messiah".
Sometimes it seems he says it jokingly. Sometimes it sounds more serious.
This week many realized he wasn't kidding. He is serious, And it's not just him.
This is a phenomenon. It is not new, but it is renewed.
Until October 7, Bibi was the "messenger of God". or "the one whom the name has touched".
Since the massacre, the issue takes on a different shape and understanding.
We are in the war of Gog and Magog. Apocalypse.
According to the prophecies, after this war the Messiah will come.
That is, all the surrounding disasters are actually times of redemption.
Everything is planned. Everything is from heaven.
This perception is indeed a common perception in the Bibist camp.
Do they believe that things are indeed moving towards big days?
"Yes, of course according to the Bibist camp, "this is the essence of a Jew, things are in a redemptive process, there is no doubt about it, the prophecies are being fulfilled."

This is not new:
Here is a column from February 2021: Title: "Sing to the King". By Yedidia Meir.
The text: "I'm not a Bibist, I'm an Elocist. In the last year, I've had trouble looking at Netanyahu only through political glasses.
In my view, he is the messenger of supreme providence to steer the State of Israel, a country that the Lord our God has eyes on from the beginning of the year to the end, in the historical and challenging period in which we live. There is no I have another explanation for his successes, his powers, his abilities, his freshness, his survival."

This messianism is becoming established among a considerable number of public groups, some of them Bibists, some of them orthodox,
who look around, see that everything is lit up,
But why Ben-Gvir, another of the Gog and Magog torch-bearers, went up to the Temple Mount the other day?
he prayed and then loudly announced that the status quo on the Temple Mount had been broken and Jews are praying freely,
he also probably believes in the theory of the redemption,
I'm not sure if he's convinced that Bibi is God's messenger.
He is more inclined to appreciate that the real messenger is him and Bibi is his assistant.
And filled with hope. Behold, redemption is on the way.

There are lists of failures, not listening to warnings, denying that warnings were provided, not taking responsibility for failures,
Ignoring wise generals like Brick, who urged not to do ground incursion in to Gaza, that it was an entrapment, etc.
I will stop here.