Masters Propio (ENEB, etc)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Garp, Jul 4, 2020.

  1. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    It is a shortcut to temporary residency yes, but what I meant was that you can't convert a TN into LPR/green card status. So you will have to go home after a few years and cannot naturalize unless you switch to another visa by getting married, biting the bullet and do H1B, working for an employer willing to file for you as an L-1 transfer, etc.
  2. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    One does not "convert" a NR status into a LPR status; they are unrelated. It is possible to apply for LPR while being in TN status. The reason people on TN are hesitant to do that and prefer to change to H1B first is the issue of "intent". Applying to GC while on TN is perfectly legal. However, it can be construed as "demonstrating an immigrant intent", quite understandably so. So if a TN with GC in process leaves the country and tries to reenter, he risks being denied at the border, because TN is supposed to have a "non-immigrant intent". H1B is "dual intent" and does not have this issue.

    In short, the process of immigrating legally is a mess, in any country. Canada's process is, as Steve said, superior to US one.
  3. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    No amount of time on a TN visa will allow you to apply for Lawful Permanent Residency on its own because it is not an immigrant intent or dual intent visa, which was my point.

    It's possible to apply for LPR while in TN status only if you qualify under another category (spouse of a US citizen, H1B, L1, E1, etc.) A TN Visa holder might marry a US citizen and then apply, but they cannot, on a TN visa alone, adjust status. It's not a case of preferring to be on H1B, it's the law. This is why you'll note immigration attorney websites that say you can get a green card on a TN visa then go on to explain how you must apply for the actual visa that will allow you to get your LPR:

    Family-based immigration, which includes consular processing, is not really immigrating on a TN because the benefit is the result of marriage, not your visa status.
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Amount of time you spent on ANY visa, TN, F1, H1, has nothing to do with applying for LPR. The issue of intent is something completely different.

    You misunderstand what the website is saying. You can ONLY apply for a LPR if you qualify under one of LPR categories. Spouse of a US citizen is one such qualification (family preference category 1). H1, L1 and E1 are all non-immigrant, dual intent visas/statuses; to apply for GC on any of these, you need same kind of qualification if you'd be applying on TN. When you apply and are approved, THEN you transition to LPC status using one of two methods - adjustment of status (from within the country) or consular processing (when you leave the country, usually back to yours, and go to a consulate to get immigrant visa). You can adjust status while on a valid TN.

    The reason lawyers caution people about applying for GC while on TN is this: GC process takes a long time. If a TN doesn't time application right, he may ran out of TN status and need a renewal. Likewise, since TN is a status not a visa, you technically get it anew each time you leave the country and come back. In either of these situations, a border guard or DoJ official is well within his rights to deny an immigrant new/renewed TN status because by petitioning for GC, an alien shows immigrant intent. So to apply for GC on TN, one needs to make sure he has enough time in status for GC approval AND do not cross border this whole time. Not possible for some immigrants.
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2021
    nosborne48 likes this.
  5. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    So, we are in agreement that you cannot, on a TN alone, get a green card. I was responding to your statement that the TN visa "lets one to bypass the broken H1B". It does not, because it's not an immigrant visa. Everything else is just nitpicking wording that ignores that a TN visa does not allow you to petition for a green card.
  6. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    TN allows you to petition for GC. I'm on LC stage myself. It's just impractical for some immigrants.
  7. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    If your employer is petitioning for an H1B visa for you while you are in the US on a TN visa, then it is not the TN visa that is providing you that immigration benefit. It is the H1B visa that you are trying to receive. In the absence of that H1B application you could not yourself file to adjust status because the TN is not an immigrant visa, and no amount of wordplay will change that.
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    They are not. We are skipping H1B.

    H1B is primarily to allow someone to live in US and work for petitioning employer for 3 years. TN is, well, exactly the same.
    To get from H1B to GC, one's employer needs to (picking one category) get wage determination from DoL, then get Labor Certification, which when approved allows an employee to send GC petition, which when approved and when GC is "current" allows the employee to adjust status (or go to Consulate to get an immigrant visa). To get from TN to GC - the process is absolutely identical. People on TN sometimes get H1B, but that's not helping to get GC - it is done to eliminate risk of losing TN. Which risk is acceptable in my case, barring unforeseen processing delays, because my category is "current" for my country of birth and I will not leave the US in the interim. So I'll be applying for GC directly from TN.
  9. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Then they are sponsoring you under another visa category like EB2/EB3 and it is that visa category that is allowing you to immigrate, not the TN visa.
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Precisely. Which is something an H1B would ALSO need to do, and to satisfy the very same criteria. Back in 2008, I had a job offer in Hawaii, and employer would have applied for H1B. But not for GC - the position didn't fit what EB2 required (according to them). Hence, detour through Canada
  11. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I agree, but it gives you time to try another route. As you are already in the US, some manage to get a sponsor and move into an H1B. But this was in the past, most Canadians with graduate degrees were able to secure a green after a while, but this is not longer the case. As there are too many graduates, it is getting harder to immigrate based on graduate education. The number of PhDs granted in the US has grown so much that I don't think there is a shortage other than some specific professions.

    About of 13% of americans have a Masters degree or a PhD. There is no shortage of people with graduate degrees.
  12. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    It's always about specific occupations. In my department, immigrants are about 95% of faculty members, and international students dominate graduate programs. At FSU, the department swelled since my time, but every new faculty member is foreign born.

    Education aside, everyone in Canada recognizes immigration as a major growth factor, demographics and economy alike. It's not like this ceases to be true south of the border.
    nosborne48 likes this.
  13. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    There is no demand for PhDs the same way there is for a bachelors degree. For a bachelors degree there are many jobs that either require it or prefer it regardless of major. This doesn't really exist for PhDs. If you need CompSci PhDs then the fact that the total number of PhDs is irrelevant unless you can find the CompSci experts you're looking for. Plain and simple.

    PhDs, unlike bachelors and, sadly, many masters degree holders, are also much more specialized. I have an MBA in HR. There's nothing really special or niche about that. If I had a PhD in HR Studies and my research was focused, for example, on the psychology of recruitment then (in a hypothetical world where you're hiring HR people with PhDs) I'm quite an attractive candidate if you want an expert in recruiting. I'm not an attractive candidate if you want someone who is an expert in employer benefits.

    You just can't use the aggregate numbers and say "Yup, no shortage here." There's a lot of nuance and highly specialized interest. I see it, below the doctoral level, with engineers. We'll post a job looking for an electrical engineer with, say, a specialization in fuel cell technology and then get applications from people with general engineering degrees who have the specialized experience and expertise we want and end up getting the job over some grumpy electrical engineers who are baffled they were never even called in for an interview. Even within the field of electrical engineering, there is a difference between an EE who designs microchips and one who designs electrical systems for cars etc. You cannot just run the numbers on how many electrical engineers there are in the country and proclaim that Neuhaus is bad at recruiting since there are plenty of electrical engineers out there and he's just being too picky. I am being too picky. Because we have specific needs that require me to be picky. Take all of what I just said and now apply it to every field with a doctoral program. If you need a professor to teach Shakespeare then hiring someone with a PhD in English Lit who is an expert on Keats is not how you achieve your hiring goal, etc.
    Dustin and nosborne48 like this.
  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    That has been my experience too but I always thought that no american was going to go to hell of getting an PhD in CS or IT to make less money that a bachelor's holder. My salary as an IT and CE professor at a small University was less than 60K in 2003 when our own graduates were making 100K after some time of experience.

    I am convinced that immigrant visas help American Universities to keep salaries low but as you said, it is also a way for Universities to get students that might become immigrants also. Immigration works in favor of the economy to make it stable. If there was no immigration, salaries might go higher at the beginning but then no jobs would be available as students would not come to the US if there was no chance for immigration.
    nosborne48 likes this.
  15. Johann766

    Johann766 Active Member

    Just had a look at Formacion Alcala, unfortunately only (!?) Spanish courses and limitited to health-related subjects.
  16. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

  17. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Immigration is more important even than that, RF. In the next half century the U.S.'s ability to compete for immigrants will decide this country's economic future.
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Neuhaus, I've heard the exact same things from other hiring managers in industry. If anything, a PhD is DISqualifying.
  19. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Belated update: yes, it is possible to get a Green Card while on TN. I got one last summer.
    Dustin likes this.
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I didn't mind being rejected because I had a PhD. I figured if that was someone's mindset, I certainly didn't want to work for him/her.

    Throughout my career, I was no different than someone who'd gone to night school to get a bachelor's and master's degree. (Because, you know, that's how I did them.) Now, I think we can agree that would not be a disqualifying trigger like your describing. Then I went on to do a PhD the same way. And that somehow turns me into someone they wouldn't want to hire?

    I faced a weird form of discrimination because of the degree here and there in government, usually by people who'd done their careers the 'old' way. Taking a civil service exam, coming in at the lowest level, then decades moving up, all often without a college degree. I, on the other hand, came in later in my career and at the top of the General Schedule as a GS-15, Step 10. I once had a colleague who insisted on calling me "Mister Douglas"--not Rich or Dr Douglas--even while addressing others by their first names. (She was our chief of staff and had come up the old way.) Of course, I always used my first name and encouraged others to do so, including her. It was weird and uncomfortable. Ironically, she didn't do that to my deputy, a woman who also had a PhD.

    Ultimately, I don't really care what's in other people's heads. Nor do I really want to hear it like that. And, coming around to the point, if someone didn't want to hire me because I had a PhD, they were doing me a favor in a very odd way.
    nosborne48 and Dustin like this.

Share This Page